Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your friends who can pay but still applied for financial aid, that only makes sense if they are borderline for being eligible for need-based aid.

You can use a college's Net Price Calculator to see whether they'd give you aid or not. No need to wonder. And if you're nowhere near the ballpark, no point in checking the box that you're applying for financial aid.

As for whether need-blind schools are truly need-blind, I suspect that yes, they are, though often not for the waitlist.

Not true. If you file, then your children can take out the $5500 loan (it increases every year). It's a great value and your children have to sign off on the paperwork - in other words it gives them a reality check and "skin in the game". Important life lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best schools are need blind. Full pay helps with second tier schools and where you are a marginal admit. Sorry, OP, but you can't buy your way into a top school only by being full pay. Full pay plus donating a building, maybe. Full pay alone? No.

College isn't like DC privates schools, where money does all the talking.

+1. The very top schools have huge endowments so they don't care if you need money or not. Post the names of the schools you're interested in.

A lot of the schools in the chart linked about have admit rates under 20% -- that seems pretty selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

[Anonymous]

This site tracks need-blind status for schools. They say their info comes from college websites and by directly contacting admissions staff.

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/colleges-meeting-your-financial-need

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

Right-- my child also took AP classes and tests and provided that info to U of MI for purposes of admission, not to knock down the cost of college. They were the most challenging level classes available.

Aren't those the classes kids are supposed to take to get into these competitive schools? I'm supposed to tell my kid-- "no, don't take AP classes-- colleges hate to take kids that take AP classes because it is lost revenue and doesn't really, really prepare you for college, only sort of." Damned if you do, damned if you don't right? If colleges don't want to give credit for AP classes, why don't they just stop doing that?

(BTW-- He is also deferred-- similar stats and varsity athlete captain. Hope both our kids get in!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

Right-- my child also took AP classes and tests and provided that info to U of MI for purposes of admission, not to knock down the cost of college. They were the most challenging level classes available.

Aren't those the classes kids are supposed to take to get into these competitive schools? I'm supposed to tell my kid-- "no, don't take AP classes-- colleges hate to take kids that take AP classes because it is lost revenue and doesn't really, really prepare you for college, only sort of." Damned if you do, damned if you don't right? If colleges don't want to give credit for AP classes, why don't they just stop doing that?

(BTW-- He is also deferred-- similar stats and varsity athlete captain. Hope both our kids get in!)

Yes, you are confusing the AP tests with the courses taken. You should take as many AP courses as you can. Then you should take as many tests as you can and submit with high grades (4,5) to the admissions offices. The tests with high scores will influence and admissions offices but each school varies as to whether or not they will take the AP test and grade and grant the student college credit for same. Especially in math, the elite colleges often will ask the student to start over again with calculus just to ensure that everyone is on the same footing. Or they will require testing in order to opt out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

Right-- my child also took AP classes and tests and provided that info to U of MI for purposes of admission, not to knock down the cost of college. They were the most challenging level classes available.

Aren't those the classes kids are supposed to take to get into these competitive schools? I'm supposed to tell my kid-- "no, don't take AP classes-- colleges hate to take kids that take AP classes because it is lost revenue and doesn't really, really prepare you for college, only sort of." Damned if you do, damned if you don't right? If colleges don't want to give credit for AP classes, why don't they just stop doing that?

(BTW-- He is also deferred-- similar stats and varsity athlete captain. Hope both our kids get in!)

Yes, you are confusing the AP tests with the courses taken. You should take as many AP courses as you can. Then you should take as many tests as you can and submit with high grades (4,5) to the admissions offices. The tests with high scores will influence and admissions offices but each school varies as to whether or not they will take the AP test and grade and grant the student college credit for same. Especially in math, the elite colleges often will ask the student to start over again with calculus just to ensure that everyone is on the same footing. Or they will require testing in order to opt out.

No, no one is confusing anything. Many HS require you to take the test if you take the class or they bump your credit down to honors.,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

Right-- my child also took AP classes and tests and provided that info to U of MI for purposes of admission, not to knock down the cost of college. They were the most challenging level classes available.

Aren't those the classes kids are supposed to take to get into these competitive schools? I'm supposed to tell my kid-- "no, don't take AP classes-- colleges hate to take kids that take AP classes because it is lost revenue and doesn't really, really prepare you for college, only sort of." Damned if you do, damned if you don't right? If colleges don't want to give credit for AP classes, why don't they just stop doing that?

(BTW-- He is also deferred-- similar stats and varsity athlete captain. Hope both our kids get in!)

UMich is notorious for rejecting or waitlisting high stat students. It knows it can’t compete with ivies or more selective public unis.

So, read between the lines. While I am at it, if there are profs who don’t like APs, it has to do with their job security. Students with AP US History, for example, will not repeat US History in college. Some may never take another history course. Now you know why profs don’t like AP courses. APs make them them expendable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

Right-- my child also took AP classes and tests and provided that info to U of MI for purposes of admission, not to knock down the cost of college. They were the most challenging level classes available.

Aren't those the classes kids are supposed to take to get into these competitive schools? I'm supposed to tell my kid-- "no, don't take AP classes-- colleges hate to take kids that take AP classes because it is lost revenue and doesn't really, really prepare you for college, only sort of." Damned if you do, damned if you don't right? If colleges don't want to give credit for AP classes, why don't they just stop doing that?

(BTW-- He is also deferred-- similar stats and varsity athlete captain. Hope both our kids get in!)

UMich is notorious for rejecting or waitlisting high stat students. It knows it can’t compete with ivies or more selective public unis.

So, read between the lines. While I am at it, if there are profs who don’t like APs, it has to do with their job security. Students with AP US History, for example, will not repeat US History in college. Some may never take another history course. Now you know why profs don’t like AP courses. APs make them them expendable.

Which publix schools are more selective than Umich?

[Anonymous]

There aren't, though Berkeley, UCLA and UNC are very difficult from OOS.

[Anonymous]

Not at all. Foreign students pay far more and are full pay at a much higher price. And there are so many of them. Look for a school with the right stats and hope to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay, 35 ACT, 4.6 wgpa, 8 APs with 5s, 4 more APs this senior year, varsity athlete including captain, ECs with leadership, deferred at U of MI

In at some lower tier schools with generous merit aid

I'm not sure why people think APs help? I'm a professor and at my (very good) university they have really started frowning on APs, first because they don't believe it really indicates student quality or prepares them well for college, and second because it steals tuition revenue away from our lower level, more profitable classes.

If you are a professor you probably know that admissions officers at highly competitive universities want students that have taken the most challenging schedule possible, which at most HS are AP classes.

Their value beyond admissions is debatable, of course.

Right-- my child also took AP classes and tests and provided that info to U of MI for purposes of admission, not to knock down the cost of college. They were the most challenging level classes available.

Aren't those the classes kids are supposed to take to get into these competitive schools? I'm supposed to tell my kid-- "no, don't take AP classes-- colleges hate to take kids that take AP classes because it is lost revenue and doesn't really, really prepare you for college, only sort of." Damned if you do, damned if you don't right? If colleges don't want to give credit for AP classes, why don't they just stop doing that?

(BTW-- He is also deferred-- similar stats and varsity athlete captain. Hope both our kids get in!)

Yes, you are confusing the AP tests with the courses taken. You should take as many AP courses as you can. Then you should take as many tests as you can and submit with high grades (4,5) to the admissions offices. The tests with high scores will influence and admissions offices but each school varies as to whether or not they will take the AP test and grade and grant the student college credit for same. Especially in math, the elite colleges often will ask the student to start over again with calculus just to ensure that everyone is on the same footing. Or they will require testing in order to opt out.

On a zoom earlier this year, a college admissions director said that the results of AP exams would be given more weight if a student applied with no standardized test scores. Makes sense — it’s one way to weigh the rigor of the education the HS provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There aren't, though Berkeley, UCLA and UNC are very difficult from OOS.

Some are a harder admit OOS because they cap the percentage of OOS students (Texas, NC come to mind). Michigan has a fairly high % of OOS students for a flagship).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best schools are need blind. Full pay helps with second tier schools and where you are a marginal admit. Sorry, OP, but you can't buy your way into a top school only by being full pay. Full pay plus donating a building, maybe. Full pay alone? No.

College isn't like DC privates schools, where money does all the talking.

Yes. As in American politics, there is widespread confusion about what “rich” means. Rich means billionaires. People who can buy a building. The 1% — those who have to scrimp and save to afford full pay — get shafted by the truly rich while believing that they’re getting ahead by paying a full ride and voting for lower taxes for themselves. But in reality both are mirages, and the billionaires laugh at them while holding them down.