"Children May Be Driving the Pandemic After All" - der Spiegel (kids "quite efficient at spreading")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

x1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

[Anonymous]

So what? The answer isn’t to lock kids up for two years. The answer is to figure out how to reduce the risk of them infecting teachers and each other. There are a ton of possible mitigation measures. None are perfect but layering them helps a lot. The answer is school with mitigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what? The answer isn’t to lock kids up for two years. The answer is to figure out how to reduce the risk of them infecting teachers and each other. There are a ton of possible mitigation measures. None are perfect but layering them helps a lot. The answer is school with mitigation.

This, and also prioritizing schools instead of putting them last, as the DC area has been. The issue isn’t whether kids can transmit COVID, it’s that the costs of keeping them out of school outweigh the costs of their COVID transmission *which can be mitigated*. We KNOW that adults transmit COVID; that hasn’t stopped them from gathering. Children’s education > adult leisure time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

NYC has less than 20% of ICU beds available and the infection rate has gone from less than 1% to 6.26% since schools have opened. There have been 4,791 COVID cases and they are still open. 100s of cases this week alone as community spread increases, and only special ed and elementary students are back. Why would we open schools (even for special ed and elementary) only to have to shutter them one by one as people get sick and the virus spreads? People who want to open schools seem to ignore that schools are closed because of the pandemic, which is still spiraling out of control. The CDC estimates that for the next 60 days there will still be 3,000+ deaths, but you think opening in a couple weeks is a reasonable, safe plan? This is what happens when you start with the conclusion ("schools should be open") and try to work backward, instead of accepting that we need to get control of the virus first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what? The answer isn’t to lock kids up for two years. The answer is to figure out how to reduce the risk of them infecting teachers and each other. There are a ton of possible mitigation measures. None are perfect but layering them helps a lot. The answer is school with mitigation.

This, and also prioritizing schools instead of putting them last, as the DC area has been. The issue isn’t whether kids can transmit COVID, it’s that the costs of keeping them out of school outweigh the costs of their COVID transmission *which can be mitigated*. We KNOW that adults transmit COVID; that hasn’t stopped them from gathering. Children’s education > adult leisure time.

No, large gatherings of all kinds (church, concerts, restaurants, bars, cruises, schools) need to be forgone. There is no moralizing this-the virus does not discriminate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

NYC has less than 20% of ICU beds available and the infection rate has gone from less than 1% to 6.26% since schools have opened. There have been 4,791 COVID cases and they are still open. 100s of cases this week alone as community spread increases, and only special ed and elementary students are back. Why would we open schools (even for special ed and elementary) only to have to shutter them one by one as people get sick and the virus spreads? People who want to open schools seem to ignore that schools are closed because of the pandemic, which is still spiraling out of control. The CDC estimates that for the next 60 days there will still be 3,000+ deaths, but you think opening in a couple weeks is a reasonable, safe plan? This is what happens when you start with the conclusion ("schools should be open") and try to work backward, instead of accepting that we need to get control of the virus first.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, hunh? NYC did a lot of other things alongside opening schools. You can’t say schools caused this and indoor dining didn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what? The answer isn’t to lock kids up for two years. The answer is to figure out how to reduce the risk of them infecting teachers and each other. There are a ton of possible mitigation measures. None are perfect but layering them helps a lot. The answer is school with mitigation.

This, and also prioritizing schools instead of putting them last, as the DC area has been. The issue isn’t whether kids can transmit COVID, it’s that the costs of keeping them out of school outweigh the costs of their COVID transmission *which can be mitigated*. We KNOW that adults transmit COVID; that hasn’t stopped them from gathering. Children’s education > adult leisure time.

No, large gatherings of all kinds (church, concerts, restaurants, bars, cruises, schools) need to be forgone. There is no moralizing this-the virus does not discriminate.

+1,000

You people can mince around words all you want but when one subset of the population is effectively mini-superspreaders you isolate them to their nuclear families until the threat is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

NYC has less than 20% of ICU beds available and the infection rate has gone from less than 1% to 6.26% since schools have opened. There have been 4,791 COVID cases and they are still open. 100s of cases this week alone as community spread increases, and only special ed and elementary students are back. Why would we open schools (even for special ed and elementary) only to have to shutter them one by one as people get sick and the virus spreads? People who want to open schools seem to ignore that schools are closed because of the pandemic, which is still spiraling out of control. The CDC estimates that for the next 60 days there will still be 3,000+ deaths, but you think opening in a couple weeks is a reasonable, safe plan? This is what happens when you start with the conclusion ("schools should be open") and try to work backward, instead of accepting that we need to get control of the virus first.

You clearly don't know what typical ICU utilization rates are. They're not that much higher than usual for this time of year. Which is pretty amazing given that they haven't had much in the way of restrictions except for closing middle/high schools. Indoor dining isn't closing until Monday, giving everyone the weekend to get some more meals in.

I don't think you realize how much of society of is operating right now. Elementary schools would be in the weeds. European countries managed to keep schools open at similar levels of spread. France actually kept them open at far higher levels. As log as you keep students in cohorts, you don't need to close entire schools for cases- just classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

NYC has less than 20% of ICU beds available and the infection rate has gone from less than 1% to 6.26% since schools have opened. There have been 4,791 COVID cases and they are still open. 100s of cases this week alone as community spread increases, and only special ed and elementary students are back. Why would we open schools (even for special ed and elementary) only to have to shutter them one by one as people get sick and the virus spreads? People who want to open schools seem to ignore that schools are closed because of the pandemic, which is still spiraling out of control. The CDC estimates that for the next 60 days there will still be 3,000+ deaths, but you think opening in a couple weeks is a reasonable, safe plan? This is what happens when you start with the conclusion ("schools should be open") and try to work backward, instead of accepting that we need to get control of the virus first.

You clearly don't know what typical ICU utilization rates are. They're not that much higher than usual for this time of year. Which is pretty amazing given that they haven't had much in the way of restrictions except for closing middle/high schools. Indoor dining isn't closing until Monday, giving everyone the weekend to get some more meals in.

I don't think you realize how much of society of is operating right now. Elementary schools would be in the weeds. European countries managed to keep schools open at similar levels of spread. France actually kept them open at far higher levels. As log as you keep students in cohorts, you don't need to close entire schools for cases- just classrooms.

You clearly don’t understand how schools work. It’s impossible to keep schools in separate cohorts because kids take the bus based on their geographic location, not their cohort. They all share communal bathrooms, hallways, gyms, etc. and work with the same occupational, speech, and physical therapists. They all work with the same specials teachers and ESL/SPED push in teachers. When a classroom teacher is out, the priority is for all kids to be supervised, not preserving cohorts. Classes are combined and mixed every day. Schools are unique in that all the people in them have to be supervised at all times. You can’t just assign one adult to a class and make it work because of licensure issues, teacher lunch breaks, IEP requirements, and absences. Teachers have absolutely no obligation to put themselves and their families at risk working in communities with high levels of transmission. It is reckless and irresponsible to acknowledge that ICUs are so full that they had to shutter all indoor dining for fear of overwhelming the hospital system, but insist that people should still crowd onto rush hour subways and gather together for hours in school buildings. They announced they were reopening NYC schools regardless of infection rate and every educator I know (save for two who didn’t qualify or have a family member who did) made the decision to opt out of in person learning for the remainder of the year. The icing on the cake is that teachers will not be prioritized for the vaccine, but are expected to continue reporting “for the duration of the pandemic”. Good luck staffing schools in this dystopian nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

Perhaps in YOUR neighborhood no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow but in MY neighborhood they are ready to fire the superintendent because he isn't moving fast enough. They wanted schools open in September and then again in October and then in November and now in December. These whackadoodles in #OpenACPS are posting almost continuously on Facebook about it.

[Anonymous]

Isn't it great how you can find an article to support however you are feeling about an issue now?

Here is the actual data: https://statsiq.co1.qualtrics.com/public-dashboard/v0/dashboard/5f78e5d4de521a001036f78e#/dashboard/5f78e5d4de521a001036f78e?pageId=Page_c0595a5e-9e70-4df2-ab0c-14860e84d36a

[Anonymous]

Sigh. Here, let me save you several pages of idiotic responses.

"NO, NO, NO! SCHOOLS ARE SAFE! KIDS DON'T SPREAD IT! Here, let me quote the same tired op ed pieces for the 5 millionth time! No, it doesn't matter that nobody's testing and contact tracing is a joke. It's true because I believe it and because I really, really, really super duper big want my kids back in a building right now!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - the use of masks and distancing - as is being in done in controlled classroom settings, should greatly lessen the spread.

Anti- school folks keep posting these threads about kids as potential vectors. Okay. The next step should have been (months ago) to ensure controlled classroom settings to get kids back inside the classroom.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already). Let's talk about ways to protect the most vulnerable and live with it.

No, this information means that we should avoid indoor congregate settings that accelerate the pandemic and put further strain on the healthcare system. Not that we should push to open schools at the height of the pandemic where 3,000 people are dying a day and we have 200,000+ new infections every day.

Almost no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow. Start with some special p education programs in January, and start bringing back elementary students for the 2nd semester. Keep bars/restaurants closed, keep restrictions on gathering sizes, and continue efforts expand hospital surge capacity. Places like Maryland are in pretty good shape to do this. Our case counts are lower than other parts of the country and our hospitals still have headroom on capacity (without, I might add, even cancelling all elective procedures as was done earlier this year).

Maryland could absolutely reopen schools safely. Just a couple of the big counties don't want to due their leaders' ties to the teacher unions.

Perhaps in YOUR neighborhood no one is proposing reopening schools tomorrow but in MY neighborhood they are ready to fire the superintendent because he isn't moving fast enough. They wanted schools open in September and then again in October and then in November and now in December. These whackadoodles in #OpenACPS are posting almost continuously on Facebook about it.

If tomorrow they decided to reopen, it couldn't realistically happen until January. People are fighting to reopen because if they don't, schools won't reopen until fall 2021, or perhaps even February 2022.

[Anonymous]

We are going to use a vaccine to save the lives of our grandparents, and until then we are going to socially distance and avoid indoor spaces and use other measures to reduce virus spread.

We are all going to get Covid at some point (if we have not already).

This is a Republican talking point. And Republican elites and their media push this talking point because (1) they don't care about you and they want business to be able to make money while killing people with virus spread and (2) they don't care about your kids and they want to force them back to school to break school unions, so they can privatize schools and make money.

Do you get the theme? Republican plutocrats are lying to you so they can make more money at your expense. That's all this talking point is about.