Strategies for not judging friends who let you down ethically?

[Anonymous]

"OP, thank you. I know everyone has a different moral compass, as evidenced by these answers so far. I just wonder how I should, IF I should, look past what I personally consider ethical transgressions. I'm in my 40s and I suspect my value system isn't going to change too much. How I react ... I dunno. "

You could try drawing a distinction between choices that are very private and ones that affect society as a whole. You could also try recognizing that people have differences in opinion that really are not ethical issues just choices. Finally, you could focus on tolerance rather than creating a more polar view that it is an ethical divide.

I would not characterize the red shirting debate for example as an ethical issues. While people go way overboard on justifying and promoting their own parenting choices, these are simply choices. Most of the parenting issues are simply choices..EBF vs formula, co sleeping vs CIO, red shirting Y or N. If are viewing these as ethical position it probably signals that you are not tolerant of others disagreeing with you or you yourself are insecure in your choices. This is not about changing your own value system as that is what guides you in YOUR choices. It is understanding and respecting that others make different choices that are as completely valid as yours.

[Anonymous]

The cat story makes me really sad, and I'm not even a flag waving animal lover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have pretty strong feelings on things too - like people shouldn't circumcise, everyone should vaccinate their children, and it's ok to redshirt. But, I have friends that circumcised their boys, a cousin who didn't vaccinate and friends who think redshirting is bad (except for my kid). I just avoid talking about these and other issues that could be deal breakers when it comes to friendship. These differences, just like the tax issue and how much you pay your house cleaner, don't define the person. Now, the cat thing, I'm not sure I would be able to maintain that friendship.

Your examples are lifestyle choices, they are not moral issues.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised that your friends would discuss these types of things with you (or anyone). The fact that they are not embarassed by their actions makes me wonder what types of people they are to do these things in the first place and then think nothing of discussing it.

[Anonymous]

The cat thing blows!!!

"I'm surprised that your friends would discuss these types of things with you (or anyone). The fact that they are not embarassed by their actions makes me wonder what types of people they are to do these things in the first place and then think nothing of discussing it. "

I agree.

[Anonymous]

"The cat story makes me really sad, and I'm not even a flag waving animal lover. "

The cat story may be stupidity. People in the cities and suburbs do have this impression that people in the country adopt all the stray cats. People who don't want to put down the cat out of ethical feelings will then set it free with the idea it will go back to nature or be adopted by the good country folk with fifty geriatric cats living in their house.

Most vets will euthanize and older cat without questions.

[Anonymous]

Don't see the issue. I couldn't have a meaningful friendship with people I found unethical.

Could I fake it and be friendly and not make everything an issue? Sure. But I wouldn't be spending time with them voluntarily for fun. They would become my acquaintances, not my friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO ethics are very individual and personal. You should be concerned about you and your children but allow other people to make their own judgements. While these are not things I would do I also don't think they are things to judge other people on.

On the cat, drowning it was bad, but making a choice to humanely euthanize an older pet that you cannot or choose not to care for is not a universal unethical choice.

On cheaply paying the nanny? I don't see this as unethical at all. The nanny accepted the position and she is an adult. People bargain shop for services all the time. If you got an amazing deal on a car you wouldn't feel ethically compelled to spend a few extra thousand so the sales person made a bigger commision would you?

Tax issue? You really feel that passoinate about taxes? I wouldn't do this because of the consequences but my moral compass is not what compels me to pay taxes. This would be true for probably 99% of the population whether they admit it or not.

Maybe you can give your soon-to-be-ex-friend this PP's phone number. They sound like they would get along.

[Anonymous]

Whether you should look past these differences and stay friends with these people truly is personal. It all sounds pretty awful to me, and I can't imagine any of my friends doing or saying what you describe. That said, I know plenty of people are comfortable looking past such things if there's enough other common ground and friendship. Your call, of course.

If you DO decide to look past it and continue the friendships, I think you need to center on accepting your friends for who they are. Every time your friend brags about underpaying her housecleaner or cheating on her taxes, rather than get upset inside or go into judgment mode, you need to repeat to yourself, "That's wrong, but that's just [friend] being friend. I know that's the way she is and I choose to stay friends with her anyway."

Again, I'm not sure I would do it in the cases you describe. But I do use this approach to keep myself calm when dealing with some of my friends' major quirks. They're not ethical issues, but at times I find myself going down the Judgy McJudgerson route and this little reminder helps me get perspective and focus on the things about my friends that I truly love.

P.S. The cat thing is so upsetting to me, I can't really think about it. Esepcially in this area where there are so many great no-kill shelters and cat rescue groups like Feline Foundation of Greater Washington (www.ffgw.org) who would have given her pet a good life. Awful.

[Anonymous]

OP if you feel these issues are unethical choices to the extent you can't help focusing on them, I'm curious how you deal with the bigger issues?

Are you religious? If yes then can you handle others who belong to a different religion. Do you believe they are unethical for following a different religion?

Gays? I'm assuming you are hetereosexual, do you have a problem with people who chose a different lifestyle?

Politics? Are you only able to be friends with people who hold the same political beliefs?

[Anonymous]

"Maybe you can give your soon-to-be-ex-friend this PP's phone number. They sound like they would get along. "

Could we send out a CatAlert before these two join forces? Feline SOS to Nancy Grace?

[Anonymous]

Oh, OP, the business about paying taxes, etc. would bug me. As would plenty of other things / choices people make. But, I try to remind myself that I'm not perfect either. I'm sure there are things that I do/choose that people find out of line with their moral code. Likewise, I don't think those two situations necessarily define those people . . . maybe.

The cat situation is a difference story. That is a huge red flag and shows a gross lack of empathy. And shows that person to be absolutely cruel. In this day and these times, there are PLENTY of opportunities for unhappy or inconvenienced pet owners (i.e. rescues, shelters and the like). And, the advertisements, etc. are out there and common. So, this person made the DELIBERATE choice to do what they did. There's no redemption for that in my book (and don't even get me started on people who are cruel to kids, the elderly, etc.) You should have HUGE red flags about this person and if they asked, I would absolutely tell them the reason. To me this situation is heads above the rest in terms of how bad it is.

Not only would I judge them for this last one. I would end the friendship pronto.

[Anonymous]

These people are your friends? Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Let me ask a question that I know is going to get me flamed....but why shouldn't you judge people who let you down ethically?

I think PPs have done a good job in distinguishing between different life choices (redshirting, public vs private schools) and true moral/ethical issues. If I truly believe in something strongly, and am appalled and sickened at a deep moral level, why should I just let it pass instead of dealing with it? In the OP's case, she might deal with it by choosing to end the friendship, or by verbalizing her discomfort to the friend. What if I found out that a friend occasionally hit his spouse, or had a recreational drug/porn habit, or fill-in-the-blank with the item that would be morally repugnant to you? Why is it wrong to judge and act based on your moral judgements?

I am one of those people who thinks that actions have consequences. And in order for me to live with myself, one of the consequences of you making what I believe to be a truly unethical decision, is having me react or respond to it in some way. I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou, but I guess I'm saying that I don't think we should all have to just disregard the very poor choices of others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't see the issue. I couldn't have a meaningful friendship with people I found unethical.

Could I fake it and be friendly and not make everything an issue? Sure. But I wouldn't be spending time with them voluntarily for fun. They would become my acquaintances, not my friends.

Nevermind - I posted this and then read that they just let the indoor cat out randomly to die or fend for itself. I thought maybe they had it put to sleep. At least that would have been kinder than letting it starve or get attacked by an animal and left to die alone.

I could not be nice to this person, or even be in the same room. Further, if I had found out where they had done this, I would have tried to rescue the cat. What they did was illegal and inhumane. Karma's a bitch. Assholes.