Federal job stability

[Anonymous]

It's because any time anyone is removed from federal service they sue. And usually win, even when the feds have their I's dotted and T's crossed. I'm convinced it's because federal lawyers are terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fed work is like a lot of long-unionized workforces like factories (for different historical reasons). There are basically 2-3 classes of workers. Permanent workers have tons of job security. So to have more budget flexibility, the government hires lots of people on term and seasonal positions. 2nd class: fed employees with benefits, but an expiration date, and can be non-renewed at seasonal or yearly intervals. And then the most year to year flexibility is to hire contractors, fellows, and other forms of non-empliyee, even though they can cost more, because they don't require commitments. (This isn't an argument against unions. It's an illustration of how employers try to find ways to offload financial risk onto employees.)

My specific fed job is also pretty safe because it involves administering a program that is popular with both parties in Congress and has been expanded and given more funding twice in the last year. It may not be here for 40 years, but it should be safe for the few years i plan to stay.

I believe contractors are hired because it's easier to hire them. Have you seen the resumes that make it through the federal hiring practice? They're terrible. You can't ever hire who you want, even if they're an excellent candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fed work is like a lot of long-unionized workforces like factories (for different historical reasons). There are basically 2-3 classes of workers. Permanent workers have tons of job security. So to have more budget flexibility, the government hires lots of people on term and seasonal positions. 2nd class: fed employees with benefits, but an expiration date, and can be non-renewed at seasonal or yearly intervals. And then the most year to year flexibility is to hire contractors, fellows, and other forms of non-empliyee, even though they can cost more, because they don't require commitments. (This isn't an argument against unions. It's an illustration of how employers try to find ways to offload financial risk onto employees.)

My specific fed job is also pretty safe because it involves administering a program that is popular with both parties in Congress and has been expanded and given more funding twice in the last year. It may not be here for 40 years, but it should be safe for the few years i plan to stay.

What's this second class? is it the kind of job on USA jobs with "Appointment type: Term"?

[Anonymous]

Unless you’re a really awful employee, about the worst they can do is move you to professional Siberia (which happens all the time to political outcasts when the administration changes.

[Anonymous]

It's about the only place in America you can literally phone it in and still make over six figures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fed work is like a lot of long-unionized workforces like factories (for different historical reasons). There are basically 2-3 classes of workers. Permanent workers have tons of job security. So to have more budget flexibility, the government hires lots of people on term and seasonal positions. 2nd class: fed employees with benefits, but an expiration date, and can be non-renewed at seasonal or yearly intervals. And then the most year to year flexibility is to hire contractors, fellows, and other forms of non-empliyee, even though they can cost more, because they don't require commitments. (This isn't an argument against unions. It's an illustration of how employers try to find ways to offload financial risk onto employees.)

My specific fed job is also pretty safe because it involves administering a program that is popular with both parties in Congress and has been expanded and given more funding twice in the last year. It may not be here for 40 years, but it should be safe for the few years i plan to stay.

What's this second class? is it the kind of job on USA jobs with "Appointment type: Term"?

Yes, term (renewable annually for up to X years) or seasonal (a huge % of the park rangers you interact with only have their jobs March-October, for example).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A federal job is stable because the federal government has a system of merit system principles that means you can only be fired for poor job performance that can be proven or poor conduct that can be proven. And someone will now post how they know someone with poor performance that could not be fired from a federal position. But I can tell you, that as someone who practices federal personnel law, that it is nor true that people can’t be fired from the federal government. They just cannot be fired arbitrarily.

In the private sector your are generally at at-will employee which means you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all (other than a reason that would violate a law, such as discrimination).

So true. In fact, if you are a Federal whistleblower or have filed a discrimination or sexual harassment complaint then you can indeed be fired as a means of retaliation. So you are a lawyer, working for a Federal agency? If you are then lawyers just like you (paid for by the taxpayers) will look for any minor infraction a way to build a case against a complainant. Since MSPB and EEOC are now virtually toothless, it's a slam dunk for you!

Jesus Lisa is that you? I spent four years documenting someone who came to work drunk. And somehow drank all day. You can fire someone but it is a full time job.

Please tell us about Lisa. PLEASE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because any time anyone is removed from federal service they sue. And usually win, even when the feds have their I's dotted and T's crossed. I'm convinced it's because federal lawyers are terrible.

From which darkened orifice did you pull this bs out of? Here are the facts:

https://www.govexec.com/management/2019/05/feds-rarely-win-mspb-board-says-s-not-problem/157021/

[Anonymous]

So much misinfo and useless info... Yes, OP, after your probation period, a fed position is as solid as anything out there. There are a few things that will get you fired but, if you are anywhere close to average person, it's hard to get fired even if you wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much misinfo and useless info... Yes, OP, after your probation period, a fed position is as solid as anything out there. There are a few things that will get you fired but, if you are anywhere close to average person, it's hard to get fired even if you wanted to.

It depends on the agency. Some agencies don't like to fire anyone and will bend over backwards to retain poor employees. Other agencies are more willing to fire employees. Of course, most employees don't get fired, in either the federal or private sector.

[Anonymous]

If you have a tyrannical fed manager it isn’t great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ignorant question here!

Oftentimes when someone on the DCUM board (esp Jobs and Careers and Money and Finances) refers to their federal job they say that its safe/stable. Can you not get fired in federal positions? Are positions generally not cut?

I have lived in the DC area for over a decade and ashamed to admit I don't understand federal government jobs!

They get fired. I was shocked to see my colleague fired for production issues. I knew her very well. She had no ethics issues, she was just slower at her job than others, not deliberately.

About 7% of the group I started out with was fired.

[Anonymous]

It’s very difficult to fire a federal employee. Poor performance has to be well documented.
I worked with a woman that was on a performance improvement plan (PIP) - which is part of the process to document performance if someone is on their way to being fired.
As much as I wanted her gone, I ended up doing her work because I couldn’t let the program fail. it’s very difficult on the coworkers that share responsibilities when there is a PIP.
They knew I was doing the briefing slides, and after she would brief them (incoherently I might add), I would have to re-brief them the actual status.
She ended up meeting the minimum and was retained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s very difficult to fire a federal employee. Poor performance has to be well documented.
I worked with a woman that was on a performance improvement plan (PIP) - which is part of the process to document performance if someone is on their way to being fired.
As much as I wanted her gone, I ended up doing her work because I couldn’t let the program fail. it’s very difficult on the coworkers that share responsibilities when there is a PIP.
They knew I was doing the briefing slides, and after she would brief them (incoherently I might add), I would have to re-brief them the actual status.
She ended up meeting the minimum and was retained.

You can't generalize like that, as there are more than 150 federal agencies employing more than two million employees. Yes, you have to document poor performance and/or misconduct. At some agencies, upper management is reluctant to fire anyone. At other agencies/subcomponents, such as the Board of Veterans' Appeals, upper management encourages managers to fire people. It's not difficult to fire someone if upper management wants to do it. The difficulty that everyone talks about exists when lower management wants to fire someone, but upper management is resistant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignorant question here!

Oftentimes when someone on the DCUM board (esp Jobs and Careers and Money and Finances) refers to their federal job they say that its safe/stable. Can you not get fired in federal positions? Are positions generally not cut?

I have lived in the DC area for over a decade and ashamed to admit I don't understand federal government jobs!

They get fired. I was shocked to see my colleague fired for production issues. I knew her very well. She had no ethics issues, she was just slower at her job than others, not deliberately.

About 7% of the group I started out with was fired.

Which agency? Board of Veterans' Appeals?