transgender or confused?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m straight and cis gender, so take it for what it’s worth, but I’d try to find a skilled therapist who is knowledgeable about transgender issues and just let your daughter talk to them. Teen years are hard. Social issues are hard. Bullying is awful. But add on top of that someone who’s exploring their gender or sexual orientation? I think a therapist (has to be a good one) would be so helpful. And if she is transgender, there’s someone there who can help her navigate the complex road of transitioning.

And FWIW, my friends daughter first thought she was gay, then non binary, then transgender. He first chose they/them as pronouns and now uses male pronouns. He’s very comfortable with who he is now but it was a process.

Don't do this. The current trend is for "gender-aware" therapists to push transition on any child who expresses any thoughts about being transgender.

I would just wait this out and let your daughter do what she wants to. 14 is still very young. If you start to see serious signs of depression, then get therapy for that.

I hear that a lot but I don't really believe it because the guidelines for true gender-affirming therapy is not to push the child in any one direction. I don't know if all of these stories are because guidelines are not being followed or because parents are disappointed in the outcomes.

Thank you for saying that. PP’s response would be like saying “don’t go to couples counseling because that leads to divorce.” Sometimes, maybe, but they were already rocky.

There’s an idea, not really based on facts (maybe a few anecdotes but usually it’s 17th hand knowledge or something they read online so it must be true), that you can go to any therapist and they’ll affirm that you’re trans, and then you can go to any doctor and get hormones. It’s a lengthy process when done properly. Rarely do kids discuss the possibility of being trans with their parents the first time it pops in their head. By the time they discuss with parents, they’ve probably been considering it for a while. By the time they get in therapy, they’re typically pretty deep in the decision making process. What kids tell their parents about gender and sexuality often differs from what they tell their parents about gender. No one reasonable and responsible is pushing this on kids. That’s different from being accepting, which is what professionals do.

google "detrans." There is a growing cohort of young women who transitioned and detransitioned, and recount that they feel doctors and therapists moved them too quickly to interventions like hormones and surgery.

Some links:
https://www.piqueresproject.com/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/meet-detransitioners-women-became-men-now-want-go-back/

Personally I have no doubt that there are some people who are "legitimately" trans and taking medications/surgery is right for them. But I also think it's clear that a lot of young people are suddenly transitioning as part of a trend. I wouldn't really care about this except for the fact that transitioning can involve extremely invasive and life-altering medical interventions.

To make matters worse, research into this trend is being suppressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m straight and cis gender, so take it for what it’s worth, but I’d try to find a skilled therapist who is knowledgeable about transgender issues and just let your daughter talk to them. Teen years are hard. Social issues are hard. Bullying is awful. But add on top of that someone who’s exploring their gender or sexual orientation? I think a therapist (has to be a good one) would be so helpful. And if she is transgender, there’s someone there who can help her navigate the complex road of transitioning.

And FWIW, my friends daughter first thought she was gay, then non binary, then transgender. He first chose they/them as pronouns and now uses male pronouns. He’s very comfortable with who he is now but it was a process.

Don't do this. The current trend is for "gender-aware" therapists to push transition on any child who expresses any thoughts about being transgender.

I would just wait this out and let your daughter do what she wants to. 14 is still very young. If you start to see serious signs of depression, then get therapy for that.

I hear that a lot but I don't really believe it because the guidelines for true gender-affirming therapy is not to push the child in any one direction. I don't know if all of these stories are because guidelines are not being followed or because parents are disappointed in the outcomes.

Thank you for saying that. PP’s response would be like saying “don’t go to couples counseling because that leads to divorce.” Sometimes, maybe, but they were already rocky.

There’s an idea, not really based on facts (maybe a few anecdotes but usually it’s 17th hand knowledge or something they read online so it must be true), that you can go to any therapist and they’ll affirm that you’re trans, and then you can go to any doctor and get hormones. It’s a lengthy process when done properly. Rarely do kids discuss the possibility of being trans with their parents the first time it pops in their head. By the time they discuss with parents, they’ve probably been considering it for a while. By the time they get in therapy, they’re typically pretty deep in the decision making process. What kids tell their parents about gender and sexuality often differs from what they tell their parents about gender. No one reasonable and responsible is pushing this on kids. That’s different from being accepting, which is what professionals do.

google "detrans." There is a growing cohort of young women who transitioned and detransitioned, and recount that they feel doctors and therapists moved them too quickly to interventions like hormones and surgery.

Some links:
https://www.piqueresproject.com/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/meet-detransitioners-women-became-men-now-want-go-back/

Personally I have no doubt that there are some people who are "legitimately" trans and taking medications/surgery is right for them. But I also think it's clear that a lot of young people are suddenly transitioning as part of a trend. I wouldn't really care about this except for the fact that transitioning can involve extremely invasive and life-altering medical interventions.

To make matters worse, research into this trend is being suppressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy

There actually is ongoing research on this and so far it backs the gender affirming approach. https://thinkprogress.org/transgender-children-desistance-a5caf61fc5c6/

The one ROGD study was very poorly done and was a serious disservice to the kids they were ostensibly trying to understand. It's entirely possible that some kids do suddenly want to transition for the wrong reasons, but it takes much more than one flawed study to establish a real disorder.

[Anonymous]

As an aside, I had trouble following the genders in the OP. A boy who wants to be a girl wants to date OP’s daughter who wants to be a boy? Is that it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m straight and cis gender, so take it for what it’s worth, but I’d try to find a skilled therapist who is knowledgeable about transgender issues and just let your daughter talk to them. Teen years are hard. Social issues are hard. Bullying is awful. But add on top of that someone who’s exploring their gender or sexual orientation? I think a therapist (has to be a good one) would be so helpful. And if she is transgender, there’s someone there who can help her navigate the complex road of transitioning.

And FWIW, my friends daughter first thought she was gay, then non binary, then transgender. He first chose they/them as pronouns and now uses male pronouns. He’s very comfortable with who he is now but it was a process.

Don't do this. The current trend is for "gender-aware" therapists to push transition on any child who expresses any thoughts about being transgender.

I would just wait this out and let your daughter do what she wants to. 14 is still very young. If you start to see serious signs of depression, then get therapy for that.

I hear that a lot but I don't really believe it because the guidelines for true gender-affirming therapy is not to push the child in any one direction. I don't know if all of these stories are because guidelines are not being followed or because parents are disappointed in the outcomes.

Thank you for saying that. PP’s response would be like saying “don’t go to couples counseling because that leads to divorce.” Sometimes, maybe, but they were already rocky.

There’s an idea, not really based on facts (maybe a few anecdotes but usually it’s 17th hand knowledge or something they read online so it must be true), that you can go to any therapist and they’ll affirm that you’re trans, and then you can go to any doctor and get hormones. It’s a lengthy process when done properly. Rarely do kids discuss the possibility of being trans with their parents the first time it pops in their head. By the time they discuss with parents, they’ve probably been considering it for a while. By the time they get in therapy, they’re typically pretty deep in the decision making process. What kids tell their parents about gender and sexuality often differs from what they tell their parents about gender. No one reasonable and responsible is pushing this on kids. That’s different from being accepting, which is what professionals do.

google "detrans." There is a growing cohort of young women who transitioned and detransitioned, and recount that they feel doctors and therapists moved them too quickly to interventions like hormones and surgery.

Some links:
https://www.piqueresproject.com/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/meet-detransitioners-women-became-men-now-want-go-back/

Personally I have no doubt that there are some people who are "legitimately" trans and taking medications/surgery is right for them. But I also think it's clear that a lot of young people are suddenly transitioning as part of a trend. I wouldn't really care about this except for the fact that transitioning can involve extremely invasive and life-altering medical interventions.

To make matters worse, research into this trend is being suppressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy

There actually is ongoing research on this and so far it backs the gender affirming approach. https://thinkprogress.org/transgender-children-desistance-a5caf61fc5c6/

The one ROGD study was very poorly done and was a serious disservice to the kids they were ostensibly trying to understand. It's entirely possible that some kids do suddenly want to transition for the wrong reasons, but it takes much more than one flawed study to establish a real disorder.

I mean, the header of that article is "the desistance myth," so I don't think it's really a source to get evidence-based understanding of gender transitioning. The fact is, hormonal and surgical interventions are irreversible in some ways, and plenty of kids do just turn out to be gender non-conforming and/or gay. So watchful waiting is a prudent approach. You can both affirm a child's feelings, and make decisions as the grown-up about their medical care. (That's basic parenting - affirm emotions, but don't do everything your kid things they want.)

And of course we don't know much about adolescent onset gender dysphoria that appears to be rapid, and the social influence on it, precisely because it's taboo to discuss it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m straight and cis gender, so take it for what it’s worth, but I’d try to find a skilled therapist who is knowledgeable about transgender issues and just let your daughter talk to them. Teen years are hard. Social issues are hard. Bullying is awful. But add on top of that someone who’s exploring their gender or sexual orientation? I think a therapist (has to be a good one) would be so helpful. And if she is transgender, there’s someone there who can help her navigate the complex road of transitioning.

And FWIW, my friends daughter first thought she was gay, then non binary, then transgender. He first chose they/them as pronouns and now uses male pronouns. He’s very comfortable with who he is now but it was a process.

Don't do this. The current trend is for "gender-aware" therapists to push transition on any child who expresses any thoughts about being transgender.

I would just wait this out and let your daughter do what she wants to. 14 is still very young. If you start to see serious signs of depression, then get therapy for that.

I hear that a lot but I don't really believe it because the guidelines for true gender-affirming therapy is not to push the child in any one direction. I don't know if all of these stories are because guidelines are not being followed or because parents are disappointed in the outcomes.

Thank you for saying that. PP’s response would be like saying “don’t go to couples counseling because that leads to divorce.” Sometimes, maybe, but they were already rocky.

There’s an idea, not really based on facts (maybe a few anecdotes but usually it’s 17th hand knowledge or something they read online so it must be true), that you can go to any therapist and they’ll affirm that you’re trans, and then you can go to any doctor and get hormones. It’s a lengthy process when done properly. Rarely do kids discuss the possibility of being trans with their parents the first time it pops in their head. By the time they discuss with parents, they’ve probably been considering it for a while. By the time they get in therapy, they’re typically pretty deep in the decision making process. What kids tell their parents about gender and sexuality often differs from what they tell their parents about gender. No one reasonable and responsible is pushing this on kids. That’s different from being accepting, which is what professionals do.

+1. From firsthand experience.

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

I think it's a pretty naive view to separate out gender issues from social trends and medical developments. With the advent of technologies like puberty blockers and surgery, questioning gender absolutely has become a different thing than it was in the past. Not at all the same as sexual orientation, which was primarily a legal change. And it's also naive just to trust that you can "find a good therapist" who given that the therepeutic conventions are changing, and it's horribly difficult to find good mental health/behavioral health therapists for children for ANY issue. And yes, we do need to remain grounded in the understanding that gender is societal conventions attached to biological sex. You can reject female gender roles and still be a woman; vice versa for a man. Only with a firm understanding that this it's ok to be a butch woman or effeminate man will kids really be able to be themselves.

[Anonymous]

One thought I had that might help with the OP's original question / confusion:

Gender does not have to equal sexuality.

So because a young adult is gender questioning -- doesn't necessarily mean they are also questioning their sexuality.

It's a confusing world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

I think it's a pretty naive view to separate out gender issues from social trends and medical developments. With the advent of technologies like puberty blockers and surgery, questioning gender absolutely has become a different thing than it was in the past. Not at all the same as sexual orientation, which was primarily a legal change. And it's also naive just to trust that you can "find a good therapist" who given that the therepeutic conventions are changing, and it's horribly difficult to find good mental health/behavioral health therapists for children for ANY issue. And yes, we do need to remain grounded in the understanding that gender is societal conventions attached to biological sex. You can reject female gender roles and still be a woman; vice versa for a man. Only with a firm understanding that this it's ok to be a butch woman or effeminate man will kids really be able to be themselves.

I don’t think we disagree on most of this. Read my post again. But I also have a trans kid so unless you do too, you can’t possible know as much as I do about any of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

This essay from a pediatrician suggests that’s not currently true.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html

“I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

This essay from a pediatrician suggests that’s not currently true.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html

“I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition.”

Yay. One person. Do you have any personal experience with any of this or are you trolling? My DC did not experience anything like this doctor has “learned.” Nor have any of DC’s trans friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

This essay from a pediatrician suggests that’s not currently true.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html

“I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition.”

Yay. One person. Do you have any personal experience with any of this or are you trolling? My DC did not experience anything like this doctor has “learned.” Nor have any of DC’s trans friends.

A pediatrician in a large metro area with multiple patients. Surely it stands to reason that this is not an isolated experience. And doesn’t the fact that you have a trans child who has multiple trans friends point to the possibility of a “social contagion” element?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

This essay from a pediatrician suggests that’s not currently true.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html

“I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition.”

Yay. One person. Do you have any personal experience with any of this or are you trolling? My DC did not experience anything like this doctor has “learned.” Nor have any of DC’s trans friends.

A pediatrician in a large metro area with multiple patients. Surely it stands to reason that this is not an isolated experience. And doesn’t the fact that you have a trans child who has multiple trans friends point to the possibility of a “social contagion” element?

I’m a different poster with a trans kid. We absolutely DID have that experience. None of the psychiatrists, therapists, psychologists, or pediatricians we saw made any attempt to address gender dysphoria with alternatives other than a transition. I’m not going to argue whether they were right or wrong. But they all immediately encouraged transition. It was the only option suggested. We were told “the only cure for gender dysphoria is transition.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

This essay from a pediatrician suggests that’s not currently true.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html

“I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition.”

Yay. One person. Do you have any personal experience with any of this or are you trolling? My DC did not experience anything like this doctor has “learned.” Nor have any of DC’s trans friends.

A pediatrician in a large metro area with multiple patients. Surely it stands to reason that this is not an isolated experience. And doesn’t the fact that you have a trans child who has multiple trans friends point to the possibility of a “social contagion” element?

Listen, I can scour publications for doctors who say the opposite. The professionals we’ve seen in this large metropolitan area, and there are many, have all contradicted what this doctor has stated. They are not pediatricians but mental health experts, top psychiatrists and experts in the trans field. As to your last point, no. This proves how little you understand the trans community. It’s offensive that you even suggest it. I suppose you view gender identity as a choice but this proves how little you understand the trans community. Again, do you have personal experience or knowledge of any of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of dangerous misinformation on this thread about “gender questioning trends” and “gender affirming“ trends. Similar to gays and lesbians, the world has become more accepting of people of gender differences and kids are more comfortable questioning their identity. It is not a trend, as ignorant people like to put it. While physical transitions are in the extreme, irreversible, it is entirely possible to be trans and not undergo any transformative surgery. Furthermore, any professional worth their salt will help your child figure out their gender through therapeutic methods. They will not simply affirm a child’s identity, but help the child figure out how and why they self-identity in a particular way. They will definitely not “push” physical transformations. OP find a good therapist for your DC and peer support groups and do not rely on advice or options of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

This essay from a pediatrician suggests that’s not currently true.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html

“I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition.”

Yay. One person. Do you have any personal experience with any of this or are you trolling? My DC did not experience anything like this doctor has “learned.” Nor have any of DC’s trans friends.

A pediatrician in a large metro area with multiple patients. Surely it stands to reason that this is not an isolated experience. And doesn’t the fact that you have a trans child who has multiple trans friends point to the possibility of a “social contagion” element?

I’m a different poster with a trans kid. We absolutely DID have that experience. None of the psychiatrists, therapists, psychologists, or pediatricians we saw made any attempt to address gender dysphoria with alternatives other than a transition. I’m not going to argue whether they were right or wrong. But they all immediately encouraged transition. It was the only option suggested. We were told “the only cure for gender dysphoria is transition.”

Sorry, but I call BS but if not, you must not live in DC. If I’m wrong, I hope your kid is living their best life.