HS magnets and programs testing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone being tested if they still have to apply?

Per MCPS: "Multiple measures, including student performance data; information about course enrollment;
and student, parent/guardian, and teacher surveys will be analyzed to determine interests and mindset
and to predict students likely to be successful in honors and advanced courses as early as Grade 9.
The results will be provided to parents/guardians to assist them in making decisions about their
students’ course registration at the local school and about applying to regional programs. The results
of the review also will be provided to schools to assist their efforts to enroll students in appropriate
courses and levels, and to help them communicate with parents/guardians about available options."

[Anonymous]

This is very vague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh - asians are overwhelmingly in support of universal testing, it plays into their belief that a meritocracy exists. They objected to MCPS adding new criteria that blocked areas with high concentrations of asians to reduce asian admissions. Voila more whites that performed lower than the asians got in. If I was asian, I would be pissed about this too. White privilege at its best.

If MCPS does universal testing, it is going to get the same data that it did in the MS process. Asians will still be at the top from concentrated areas. More whites will make the cut just below the asians but the higher scoring ones will be concentrated in the west. There is no non-idiscrimmintaory way to deal with this other than setting aside a number of spots for URM students. Race would not be the criteria but the student would need to be on or have been on FARMS to qualify for one of these spots.

At the high school level, going to a magnet really need to not be a defect school assignment based on your race because MCPS wants good optics. ES level CES is fine as any kid close to the range can do it. It doesn't take unique talent or even that much work of the teachers are willing to give some kids a pass which happens at some schools. Even the MS magnets have been softened to accommodate for some of the less than top of the bar students (white and URM) in the program now.

High school is an entirely different situation though. Students need to want to go to a magnet. It means getting up ridiculously early to travel far away. The workload for some (not all) of the magnets is extreme. The level is not watered down yet. The difference in rigor and expectations between RM IB and many of the regional IB programs is a good example of this. Blair SMACs would need to completely change its curriculum if it started admitting some of the lower performing whites that got into TPMS with the changes.

It would be nice if MCPS would actually help the highly capable URM students for once. Provide universal screening and then have guidance counselors reach out to URM students who score at the top. Provide set aside seats for URM students AND wrap around services to help them succeed there. Guarantee them access to a tutor, more transportation options, work study programs, and whatever it takes for them to succeed.

Another boondoggle with MCPS just ending up giving seats to lower performing white kids who live in crappy areas and spending a bunch of money on the subsequent lawsuits and investigations instead os actually helping the URM kids would be nice.

This +1000000

To both of these.

[Anonymous]

Has MCPS announced the process for applying? Do we know yet whether it has changed?

[Anonymous]

8th graders at my child's MS are meeting with MCPS reps and staff from the application programs soon to discuss the new process and options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh - asians are overwhelmingly in support of universal testing, it plays into their belief that a meritocracy exists. They objected to MCPS adding new criteria that blocked areas with high concentrations of asians to reduce asian admissions. Voila more whites that performed lower than the asians got in. If I was asian, I would be pissed about this too. White privilege at its best.

If MCPS does universal testing, it is going to get the same data that it did in the MS process. Asians will still be at the top from concentrated areas. More whites will make the cut just below the asians but the higher scoring ones will be concentrated in the west. There is no non-idiscrimmintaory way to deal with this other than setting aside a number of spots for URM students. Race would not be the criteria but the student would need to be on or have been on FARMS to qualify for one of these spots.

At the high school level, going to a magnet really need to not be a defect school assignment based on your race because MCPS wants good optics. ES level CES is fine as any kid close to the range can do it. It doesn't take unique talent or even that much work of the teachers are willing to give some kids a pass which happens at some schools. Even the MS magnets have been softened to accommodate for some of the less than top of the bar students (white and URM) in the program now.

High school is an entirely different situation though. Students need to want to go to a magnet. It means getting up ridiculously early to travel far away. The workload for some (not all) of the magnets is extreme. The level is not watered down yet. The difference in rigor and expectations between RM IB and many of the regional IB programs is a good example of this. Blair SMACs would need to completely change its curriculum if it started admitting some of the lower performing whites that got into TPMS with the changes.

It would be nice if MCPS would actually help the highly capable URM students for once. Provide universal screening and then have guidance counselors reach out to URM students who score at the top. Provide set aside seats for URM students AND wrap around services to help them succeed there. Guarantee them access to a tutor, more transportation options, work study programs, and whatever it takes for them to succeed.

Another boondoggle with MCPS just ending up giving seats to lower performing white kids who live in crappy areas and spending a bunch of money on the subsequent lawsuits and investigations instead os actually helping the URM kids would be nice.

This +1000000

To both of these.

That would be nice, but MCPS is explicitly prohibited from using race as a factor. That is the entire reason why they have been forced to a next-best option, which is using "presence of a peer group with similar abilities."

Some argue this discriminates against Asians, but actually it discriminates against UMC children, to the extent that it is discrimination to acknowledge that UMC/rich kids benefit from a whole host of advantages that their poor/working class peers do not.

So, if you are a middle class or poor/working class Asian American student, you would benefit from this approach just as much as a Black or Latinx student living in the same neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

I assume they will be adjusting the actual COGAT scores to reflect the relative "advantages" or "disadvantages" of your home school. This is what they did with the latest group of applicants to the CES programs.

[Anonymous]

That would be nice, but MCPS is explicitly prohibited from using race as a factor. That is the entire reason why they have been forced to a next-best option, which is using "presence of a peer group with similar abilities."

Some argue this discriminates against Asians, but actually it discriminates against UMC children, to the extent that it is discrimination to acknowledge that UMC/rich kids benefit from a whole host of advantages that their poor/working class peers do not.

So, if you are a middle class or poor/working class Asian American student, you would benefit from this approach just as much as a Black or Latinx student living in the same neighborhood.

No MCPS 100% used race. They ran the racial demographics against the first look of who scored the highest. The areas with the highest asian concentration became the schools that were targeted. There was no coincidence that asian admits dropped so much and whites went up. Its attempting to use geography to mask racial quotas. Their new system helped lower performing UMC white kids in less asian areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That would be nice, but MCPS is explicitly prohibited from using race as a factor. That is the entire reason why they have been forced to a next-best option, which is using "presence of a peer group with similar abilities."

Some argue this discriminates against Asians, but actually it discriminates against UMC children, to the extent that it is discrimination to acknowledge that UMC/rich kids benefit from a whole host of advantages that their poor/working class peers do not.

So, if you are a middle class or poor/working class Asian American student, you would benefit from this approach just as much as a Black or Latinx student living in the same neighborhood.

No MCPS 100% used race. They ran the racial demographics against the first look of who scored the highest. The areas with the highest asian concentration became the schools that were targeted. There was no coincidence that asian admits dropped so much and whites went up. Its attempting to use geography to mask racial quotas. Their new system helped lower performing UMC white kids in less asian areas.

God I hope Trump and Dept of Ed will go after MCPS.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that MCPS is going to use cohort for the high schools. They are under investigation by the Feds for discrimination against Asians for the changes they made using "cohort" in the middle schools. Its out of the ordinary for an investigation to take this long, 100% not a sign that MCPS was found to be in compliance and that is not good for MCPS. MCPS is probably going back and forth now with the feds on how to come under compliance or MCPS is trying to fight it.

There is no way that lawyers for MCPS would let them expand using the same method that they are getting in trouble for using.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will make admission really difficult for Asian kids.

Serious question: why would you think that? All that is mentioned here is universal screening and the specific test that they'll be taking.
[b]
I fail to see how including more kids in the testing process could discriminate against a particular ethnic group. If they're good test takers, they'll still score well in spite of a few hundred additional kids taking the test. And if they do end up not scoring as well as some of the kids who might not have otherwise taken the test, what does that have to do with them being Asian?


If there's a real case for this, please enlighten us, because I fail to see what it could possibly be. I know the cohort thing has thrown a bit of a wrench into the process for middle school, but really, the knee-jerk reaction seems inflammatory and uncalled for here

Unless you're just a troll, in which case it's business as usual, I guess.

DP. She's afraid all that money she spent on 8 years of Dr. Li's afterschool/weekend/summer prep will be wasted if DaShawn and Juan from the wrong side of the tracks will take Vivian's and David's spots at Montgomery Blair math magnet.

DeShawn and Juan are not the ones who want to be in this program. It is the Lilly White Ryan and Sean who are no longer the special snowflakes because Asian-American kids are crushing them. The Whites are reacting here, not the URMs. The URM kids who want to go the academic route are few and far between. I am not counting the Nigerians and the other African Black Panther parents here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That would be nice, but MCPS is explicitly prohibited from using race as a factor. That is the entire reason why they have been forced to a next-best option, which is using "presence of a peer group with similar abilities."

Some argue this discriminates against Asians, but actually it discriminates against UMC children, to the extent that it is discrimination to acknowledge that UMC/rich kids benefit from a whole host of advantages that their poor/working class peers do not.

So, if you are a middle class or poor/working class Asian American student, you would benefit from this approach just as much as a Black or Latinx student living in the same neighborhood.

No MCPS 100% used race. They ran the racial demographics against the first look of who scored the highest. The areas with the highest asian concentration became the schools that were targeted. There was no coincidence that asian admits dropped so much and whites went up. Its attempting to use geography to mask racial quotas. Their new system helped lower performing UMC white kids in less asian areas.

Your use of the word "targeted" elides the fact that MCPS was taking outliers from every school, including schools that are majority white with a sizable Asian minority (Pyle, Hoover). There was no "sending" middle school that saw zero students accepted to the magnet middle schools. Yes, that meant that the outliers from majority white schools like Pyle needed to have higher scores than at schools that are majority kids of color. But it was not "targeting" Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That would be nice, but MCPS is explicitly prohibited from using race as a factor. That is the entire reason why they have been forced to a next-best option, which is using "presence of a peer group with similar abilities."

Some argue this discriminates against Asians, but actually it discriminates against UMC children, to the extent that it is discrimination to acknowledge that UMC/rich kids benefit from a whole host of advantages that their poor/working class peers do not.

So, if you are a middle class or poor/working class Asian American student, you would benefit from this approach just as much as a Black or Latinx student living in the same neighborhood.

No MCPS 100% used race. They ran the racial demographics against the first look of who scored the highest. The areas with the highest asian concentration became the schools that were targeted. There was no coincidence that asian admits dropped so much and whites went up. Its attempting to use geography to mask racial quotas. Their new system helped lower performing UMC white kids in less asian areas.

The selection process was name- and race-blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That would be nice, but MCPS is explicitly prohibited from using race as a factor. That is the entire reason why they have been forced to a next-best option, which is using "presence of a peer group with similar abilities."

Some argue this discriminates against Asians, but actually it discriminates against UMC children, to the extent that it is discrimination to acknowledge that UMC/rich kids benefit from a whole host of advantages that their poor/working class peers do not.

So, if you are a middle class or poor/working class Asian American student, you would benefit from this approach just as much as a Black or Latinx student living in the same neighborhood.


No MCPS 100% used race. They ran the racial demographics against the first look of who scored the highest. The areas with the highest asian concentration became the schools that were targeted. There was no coincidence that asian admits dropped so much and whites went up. Its attempting to use geography to mask racial quotas. Their new system helped lower performing UMC white kids in less asian areas.


The selection process was name- and race-blind.

The data analysis that went on before the selection committee received eligible was NOT race blind. The data analysis that went on to establish where the "cohorts" would be located was not race blind.

Look this is no different than asking your HR department for demographic data on where the AA, Hispanics, Whites and Asians work AND then making RIF decisions targeting departments with which minority you would like to get rid of today. You just establish a race blind committee to conduct sizable reductions in the department with the most minorities you do not want anymore. Since the department is primarily that minority, you'll hit your desired goal -which is EXACTLY what MCPS did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will make admission really difficult for Asian kids.

Why?

They have their superior intelligence; a culture of hard work, love of learning and being law abiding; their involved and educated parents;; their prioritization of education and achievement; their intact and functional families; their community support structure and majority of them are not FARMS or ESOL

Are they going to be targeted because they are actually good, able, functional, meritorious, deserving and intelligent?

Here's a book to read: The Color of Success: Asian-Americans and the Origins of the Model Minority, by Ellen D. Wu, Princeton University Press, 2013.

https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10134.html

And yet...the successes keep on coming!!! And the achievement gap has now become an achievement chasm that cannot be bridged by performance and merit. As irreversible as the climate change.

Each year, Asian-American students are performing at higher levels and increasing the ceiling so much that they are not just heads and shoulders above, rather they are like the emergent of the rainforest! MCPS is trying to make the forest floor reach the same height as the emergents. Maybe try and help the understory and canopy from being burnt to the ground first?