Girls marginalized, boys allowed to control limited resources

[Anonymous]

Teach your daughter to speak up!

From what you write, it doesn't sound as if she tried to say anything. It's not the boys' fault they filled the void if she wasn't willing to insert herself into the conversation. Men will do that all of her life. Nobody in life is going to roll out the red carpet and stop and wait for your daughter to speak, OP. Teach her to fight for her right to talk.

And I say this as the mother of teenage girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could have happened with “bossy” girls too. I’d keep the boy vs girl out of the conversation and say can you help my daughter insert herself better into the process.

+1 this has little to do with gender and much to do with personality. My son's teachers always said he got lost when seated with a table full of alpha girls or alpha boys.

I agree with this. My observation at this age is some kids are just a lot more alpha and confident and they are both boys and girls. I would focus on your child and what you need to do help her advocate for herself in any setting. Because I'm guessing this type of thing might happen to her with a group of alpha girls as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could have happened with “bossy” girls too. I’d keep the boy vs girl out of the conversation and say can you help my daughter insert herself better into the process.

+1 this has little to do with gender and much to do with personality. My son's teachers always said he got lost when seated with a table full of alpha girls or alpha boys.

I agree with this. My observation at this age is some kids are just a lot more alpha and confident and they are both boys and girls. I would focus on your child and what you need to do help her advocate for herself in any setting. Because I'm guessing this type of thing might happen to her with a group of alpha girls as well.

It's summer camp, though, not a school grade. If a girl doesn't want to speak up when the other kids are more alpha, then is that a problem at that time? It's a problem at school when group projects are part of a grade. But at summer camp? That's different.

[Anonymous]

Why do I see most parents favoring their boys over their girls, regardless of their ages?

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry your daughter's input wasn't sought or used. That feels miserable to a kid - or anyone!

I also think that, while there is sexism in schools and the world, this may not be about boys hogging the resources. It is more likely about kids in a group working with their friends and excluding others. Or, kids working in a group who have an idea or expertise excluding everyone who doesn't buy in or contribute the way they want them to. My son is excluded in groups when they are working on academic themes - he is dyslexic, and he can't write or read as fast as other kids and so they just leave him out and carry on. It hurts, and doesn't allow him to show his own ideas and work. I have also seen him exclude others in games of basketball, because he doesn't want the weaker players on his team - he can be cut throat. However, one of his BFFs is a girl who can trounce all the boys on the court. For him, exclusion isn't about gender but about skill, friendship, and (sorry to say) middle school social dynamics crapola.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do I see most parents favoring their boys over their girls, regardless of their ages?

You mean they buy them more clothes? spend more time with them? text them more? take them out to dinner without their daughters?

[Anonymous]

The title of this thread, and your conclusions about what happened are off. Did you see the other projects? Were the girls "marginalized" in all of them, or were there perhaps groups of 3 girls and 1 boy, where the girls took over the project?
Also, have you even asked your girl what she contributed? Perhaps she loved controlling the camera? My kids love videotaping. How would you have reacted if the other kids were all girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do I see most parents favoring their boys over their girls, regardless of their ages?

Not true for people I know. Sorry you live in a backwater, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girls need to learn how to advocate for themselves.

That’s the reality.

Helping all children learn how to self-advocate is part of an educator's job.

Yes do the camp should help the girl advocate for herself not micro manage the boys.

It's not one or the other. They can do both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could have happened with “bossy” girls too. I’d keep the boy vs girl out of the conversation and say can you help my daughter insert herself better into the process.

+1 this has little to do with gender and much to do with personality. My son's teachers always said he got lost when seated with a table full of alpha girls or alpha boys.

Really, calling music inferior b/c they are a bunch of little girls . . . seems exactly linked to gender. That should not have been allowed by the camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could have happened with “bossy” girls too. I’d keep the boy vs girl out of the conversation and say can you help my daughter insert herself better into the process.

+1 this has little to do with gender and much to do with personality. My son's teachers always said he got lost when seated with a table full of alpha girls or alpha boys.

Really, calling music inferior b/c they are a bunch of little girls . . . seems exactly linked to gender. That should not have been allowed by the camp.

Good grief. Let it go. You don't like it, tell the camp directors and don't send her back.

I agree with the others, it is likely that had it been three girls and one boy, you might have had similar results in reverse.

I understand equity and equality. But, let's get real. Boys and girls are different. That doesn't mean they cannot work together or have shared interests.

When I was that age, my favorite genre was historic romantic novels. My favorite movies were romantic comedies. I had no interest at all in adventure films or science fiction. Most of my friends were the same way. DD loves adventure films and science fiction and fantasy. DD would not have stood by and been dominated by boys--but some of her friends might have.

This is not the issue of the camp or the boys. It is an issue with your DD. Ask her about it..if she was okay with it, share your concerns--but, understand that she really might have been fine with it. Don't make her a victim Victimhood is not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could have happened with “bossy” girls too. I’d keep the boy vs girl out of the conversation and say can you help my daughter insert herself better into the process.

+1 this has little to do with gender and much to do with personality. My son's teachers always said he got lost when seated with a table full of alpha girls or alpha boys.

+1. My thought too. Mom of a non-alpha DS. My guess is if there were 4 people in your daughter's group, my son would not have been front and center either.

I was an alpha girl--now woman in the workplace who is usually with men in meetings; I do not have a problem with having my say.

[Anonymous]

p.s. OP, what a click-bait headline.

Try: Shy DD marginalized by tween DSs at Camp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She was not complaining. I also do not think she had some sort of meaty role behind the camera. The knot in my stomach tells me that she has already accepted as normal that boys' ideas come first.

Where I am stuck is in how to address this with the camp. What is it that the adults could have done differently? The only thing I can come up with is that they should have paid more attention to equitably dividing time with the equipment among the kids. But you all surely have more and better ideas.

I do appreciate the suggestions that she has to learn to advocate for herself. She's 11, and it's a work in progress. But equally I don't want to file all of this under "she needs to do better" when I know there is a sexism component that is out of her control, but within the power of the adults to, if not completely change, at least influence in a more positive direction.

It's interesting she wasn't complaining. Had she complained prior to this? When she talks about the camp, what sense are you getting from her? Does she seem actively involved, or like a bystander?

My DD would have been mortified to be on camera at that age, and would have happily taken on the task of filming the other kids, working with them on their plans (or even providing them with a skit/performance to use), mapping out the whole project. If you look at almost any finished project she's involved in, you won't see her, but if you know her you will definitely see her touch. It sounds like you think your daughter would have liked to be more front and center, can you ask her? Because then you can work with her on tools. This is a tough age, because the elementary school solution "go tell the camp counselor that you have an idea for a commercial and the other kids are ignoring you, please help" doesn't work any more. But your daughter could go to the counselor and say she doesn't think her ideas are getting a fair hearing, and does the counselor have any ideas for what she could do. The counselor might then help the kids set up a brainstorming meeting and showing them how everyone, specifically, gets asked about their ideas. All the ideas get written on the board, etc.

If it turns out your DD did try to get more involvement and was pushed out, you should offer that feedback to the counselors and ask them if they can implement a routine to help minimize that. A mid day check in, something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This could have happened with “bossy” girls too. I’d keep the boy vs girl out of the conversation and say can you help my daughter insert herself better into the process.

Ugh. Dp. I hate,hate hate when girls are called bossy and boys are leaders. Why ignore the elephant in the room. It is a boy thing. Would you the say the same thing if ot was a race thing. Ie white kids keeping a poc from the project?