Moving back to daycare after public preK3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We did this, and it was a great choice! We had to pull our kid from a highly regarded DCPS in the middle of PK3 and we sent him to a federal daycare for PK4. (In fact I wonder if it was the same one, because ours also only had 8 kids.)

It was seriously the best choice ever. The DCPS was just a bad mix of overly structured and overly unstructured that did not work for him. Plus the class size was 20+. Another factor that I only really realized in retrospect was that the schools are not really set up administratively do deal with the issues related to ECE - so when we had problems, they treated our 3 year old like he was a 10 year old (interrogating him in the principals office!). They were unable to address the behavioral issues in a way that was appropriate for a 3 year old.

Another factor is that daycares are set up to cater to working families, and to keep kids well-rested and happy. Public schools (because they are public and you are not paying directly) are not set up that way. For better or for worse, in a public school you're part of a collective and have to surrender some things to the public good. Daycares on the other hand can give more personal attention, and care more about overall well-being and happiness.

The test- and assessment-heavy environment of DC schools absolutely trickles down to PK classrooms. One issue we had in our PK3 class is that the teachers were supposed to be constantly assessing the kids on some dumb standard that involved like 26 different variables for each kid. They were constantly inputting data, and this really impacted their time and energy to manage the classroom. They were also held professionally responsible for kids' progress on standardized instruments. In comparison, daycare workers' jobs are just to keep the kids and parents happy!

There is also a regulatory aspect. Daycares in DC have to follow the OSSE rules for naps and outdoor times. DCPS do not. My kid got WAY more outdoor time at the daycare than at his DCPS. \

Finally, DCPS/Charter + Aftercare can really be exhausting for a 3 - 4 year old. The daycare day is set up to sort of wind kids down as the day gets longer. But in the DCPS, the kid has to transition to a whole new, often chaotic setting right when they'd be winding down at daycare.

Where did you end up for K?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm sounds like a kid in my son's class. If so, please take your son out and get him into an environment where he thrives.

Dont' be a jerk, PP.

PP here. Didn't mean to be a jerk. There was a kid in the class that clearly had needs beyond what the 3 teachers could provide. He was actually my favorite kid in that class, from day 1. But reading the OP, I wonder if he would also benefit from a smaller classroom and more personalized attention to help him mature.

[Anonymous]

I'd put him back in the smaller class at daycare for PK4 unless you have an IEP or can get one that will include some interventions and accommodations to make PK4 better for your son.

[Anonymous]

I believe there is a program where some of the private daycares actually provide for pre-K paid for by DCPS. Not sure if your daycare participates, but here is the general info page from DCPS.

https://osse.dc.gov/publication/fy-2019-20-pre-k-enhancement-and-expansion-funding-high-quality-designation-application

[Anonymous]

Aren't all PK3s in DC limited to 16 students? How could your son's class have 20?

[Anonymous]

^^ Oh, did you have him in a mixed aged Montessori? That would be a huge mistake for a kid like yours, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this, and it was a great choice! We had to pull our kid from a highly regarded DCPS in the middle of PK3 and we sent him to a federal daycare for PK4. (In fact I wonder if it was the same one, because ours also only had 8 kids.)

It was seriously the best choice ever. The DCPS was just a bad mix of overly structured and overly unstructured that did not work for him. Plus the class size was 20+. Another factor that I only really realized in retrospect was that the schools are not really set up administratively do deal with the issues related to ECE - so when we had problems, they treated our 3 year old like he was a 10 year old (interrogating him in the principals office!). They were unable to address the behavioral issues in a way that was appropriate for a 3 year old.

Another factor is that daycares are set up to cater to working families, and to keep kids well-rested and happy. Public schools (because they are public and you are not paying directly) are not set up that way. For better or for worse, in a public school you're part of a collective and have to surrender some things to the public good. Daycares on the other hand can give more personal attention, and care more about overall well-being and happiness.

The test- and assessment-heavy environment of DC schools absolutely trickles down to PK classrooms. One issue we had in our PK3 class is that the teachers were supposed to be constantly assessing the kids on some dumb standard that involved like 26 different variables for each kid. They were constantly inputting data, and this really impacted their time and energy to manage the classroom. They were also held professionally responsible for kids' progress on standardized instruments. In comparison, daycare workers' jobs are just to keep the kids and parents happy!

There is also a regulatory aspect. Daycares in DC have to follow the OSSE rules for naps and outdoor times. DCPS do not. My kid got WAY more outdoor time at the daycare than at his DCPS. \

Finally, DCPS/Charter + Aftercare can really be exhausting for a 3 - 4 year old. The daycare day is set up to sort of wind kids down as the day gets longer. But in the DCPS, the kid has to transition to a whole new, often chaotic setting right when they'd be winding down at daycare.

OP here. Absolutely agree on aftercare- that is where it feels like he really falls apart some days. And unclear what they do there every day...

sounds like my kid our happy ending is that we sent him back to the same school for K and he did GREAT. This was with an IEP. I just feel like the school concentrates its resources on the K-5, and not so much ECE. ECE is fine if you have a kid who can roll with it; but they aren't really equipped to deal with issues. however, we also had the luxury of a good in-boundaries DCPS option. if you are worried about the lottery for K, then there may be reason to stick things out for PK4.

I think this is really school-specific. Our PK3 experience at a Wilson feeder was awesome. And nowhere near 20 kids, only 14 (I thought the cap is 16 for PK3?). PK3/4 kids were kept separate from big kids in aftercare, and it was fairly calm. Great teacher and aide—overall, cliche to say but PK3 was pretty “magical.” The only area where I agree daycare was clearly superior is the amount of outdoor time.

If you have a magical kid, any setting can be magical. The pedal hits the metal if your kid has any issues ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this, and it was a great choice! We had to pull our kid from a highly regarded DCPS in the middle of PK3 and we sent him to a federal daycare for PK4. (In fact I wonder if it was the same one, because ours also only had 8 kids.)

It was seriously the best choice ever. The DCPS was just a bad mix of overly structured and overly unstructured that did not work for him. Plus the class size was 20+. Another factor that I only really realized in retrospect was that the schools are not really set up administratively do deal with the issues related to ECE - so when we had problems, they treated our 3 year old like he was a 10 year old (interrogating him in the principals office!). They were unable to address the behavioral issues in a way that was appropriate for a 3 year old.

Another factor is that daycares are set up to cater to working families, and to keep kids well-rested and happy. Public schools (because they are public and you are not paying directly) are not set up that way. For better or for worse, in a public school you're part of a collective and have to surrender some things to the public good. Daycares on the other hand can give more personal attention, and care more about overall well-being and happiness.

The test- and assessment-heavy environment of DC schools absolutely trickles down to PK classrooms. One issue we had in our PK3 class is that the teachers were supposed to be constantly assessing the kids on some dumb standard that involved like 26 different variables for each kid. They were constantly inputting data, and this really impacted their time and energy to manage the classroom. They were also held professionally responsible for kids' progress on standardized instruments. In comparison, daycare workers' jobs are just to keep the kids and parents happy!

There is also a regulatory aspect. Daycares in DC have to follow the OSSE rules for naps and outdoor times. DCPS do not. My kid got WAY more outdoor time at the daycare than at his DCPS. \

Finally, DCPS/Charter + Aftercare can really be exhausting for a 3 - 4 year old. The daycare day is set up to sort of wind kids down as the day gets longer. But in the DCPS, the kid has to transition to a whole new, often chaotic setting right when they'd be winding down at daycare.

Where did you end up for K?

same school. I was super nervous about it, but it was a completely different experience. my kid still needed support with some stuff, but he was so much more able to handle being at a big school where he didn't need a ton of individualized attention. also K and 1st are very structured, which was good for him (the issue was unstructured chaos in PK3).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren't all PK3s in DC limited to 16 students? How could your son's class have 20?

I'm the PP who said 20. I guess it was actually 16 or 18. But that's basically the same as 20 when you have a terrible aide and a teacher unable to manage the classroom, especially compared to the daycare with 8 kids and 2 experienced teachers ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you should move him. My DS had a uneven year as a 3 yo in preschool, he then went to a class that was much smaller and he really thrived. He matured a lot that year and though K will be much bigger, he is now much more ready to take it on.

At that age, the transition will not be that hard. You will see those people again for K, and the kids will hardly remember he was "gone" for a year.

If it's a HRCS as OP said, it's very unlikely she'll get a spot to come back to for K.

[Anonymous]

If your kid isn't doing great in public PK for whatever reason, and you can afford it, I'd move back to a quality daycare in a heartbeat.

In addition to being a better setting for them developmentally, it's just way easier to manage for working parents -- fewer days off to manage and summer coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't all PK3s in DC limited to 16 students? How could your son's class have 20?

I'm the PP who said 20. I guess it was actually 16 or 18. But that's basically the same as 20 when you have a terrible aide and a teacher unable to manage the classroom, especially compared to the daycare with 8 kids and 2 experienced teachers ...

DC public schools that use the Head First model have PK3 classes limited to 16 kids. But most non Title 1 schools don't use that model, and classes of 20-22 Pk3 kids (with one teacher and a teacher's assistant) are common.

[Anonymous]

I understand you want to keep details to yourself, so you don't need to share, but I think it's worth considering the possible long-term impact.

You say you are at a HRCS, but obviously that can mean a lot of things on this board. It's worth talking to the school though, to see if they will hold your spot for a year (ours will a spot for a year, in certain circumstances). If they will hold the spot, then that's a totally different calculus. If the HRCS you're describing has a MS or a feeder path or a MS/HS, you should at least think about those things (if you don't love your IB feeder path). It doesn't have to be the deciding point, but I think you would kick yourself in a few years for turning that down without weighing it in your decision.

I also second the PP who suggested hiring someone as an after-school nanny/sitter. We did that for PK3 and it made a huge difference. Even though my child was coming from daycare to PK3, it is a long day (as you point out). Having the flexibility for someone to assess the mood/temperament of the day and decide what was needed that day (sometimes quiet art time, sometimes more outdoor time, sometimes story time) was incredibly helpful. While it was a lot more than after care, it was certainly less than private pre-school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand you want to keep details to yourself, so you don't need to share, but I think it's worth considering the possible long-term impact.

You say you are at a HRCS, but obviously that can mean a lot of things on this board. It's worth talking to the school though, to see if they will hold your spot for a year (ours will a spot for a year, in certain circumstances). If they will hold the spot, then that's a totally different calculus. If the HRCS you're describing has a MS or a feeder path or a MS/HS, you should at least think about those things (if you don't love your IB feeder path). It doesn't have to be the deciding point, but I think you would kick yourself in a few years for turning that down without weighing it in your decision.

I also second the PP who suggested hiring someone as an after-school nanny/sitter. We did that for PK3 and it made a huge difference. Even though my child was coming from daycare to PK3, it is a long day (as you point out). Having the flexibility for someone to assess the mood/temperament of the day and decide what was needed that day (sometimes quiet art time, sometimes more outdoor time, sometimes story time) was incredibly helpful. While it was a lot more than after care, it was certainly less than private pre-school.

OP here. Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. We honestly hadn't contemplated how terrible it might be to lose our spot so have been really been debating that since I posted yesterday. I'm curious- what are the circumstances in which you have heard a HRCS holding a spot open? Because we will try whatever might work. But we have all but decided to move him and the experiences of folks weighing in has been very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were thrilled to get a PreK3 spot for our son in a HRCS last year. He moved from a federal daycare that was good, not great, but was loving and familiar. We were, of course, excited not to pay for private daycare and didn't hesitate to move him.

Our son did fine at his school this year but there were lots of challenges. Our son has some sensory and speech issues and the school didn't handle it well- took months to be evaluated and the services are subpar. Plus, his class had 20-something kids which I know is the norm but the one assistant teacher spent most of her time corralling some of the more energetic kids (like mine) instead of doing the more focused one-on-one work he needs. The end result is that we aren't sure our son has gained much from going there and he definitely picked up some problematic behaviors (if anyone is off-task, he will happily join them, bad words, hitting incidents). Please know I am a former teacher and work in education- this is not an issue of me saying my kid is super special and deserved more attention than is possible in most public schools. We knew what we were getting into and just don't think it worked out well for our kid.

Our son went back to his daycare any time his school was closed and we noticed he did very well on his days there. During his last visit, he was more focused and excited about learning than I have ever seen (they send lots of pictures and videos) and had no behavioral problems. His class had only 8 kids. It made us seriously consider pulling him out of his school and going back to the daycare. It would be a huge financial stretch for us and we would seemingly just be kicking the can down the road as he would have to go back to public school for K. But we think maybe he just wasn't ready for a big class/school/lot of different kid personalities/need for more self-regulation and might be more ready at K.

Has anyone experienced something similar? What did you decide to do? My son loves his current teacher and his friends. The school community is lovely; we attend playdates and parties almost every weekend. We would miss them and I am 100% sure he wouldn't have that same community at the daycare as most people are commuting in from VA or MD.

What will your K options be? If you are currently enrolled in a HRCS - you need to re-lottery (and unless you have staff or sibling preference - it is hard to get a spot)
If you did not have a viable K option I would ....... stay at the school, talk to the school about retention (if needed), get a sitter for aftercare
I would ask the principal for placement with a stronger teacher next year. Maybe there is a class that is smaller - because 20+ 3 YOs with 1 teacher and 1 aid is NOT the norm for DCPS. Are you in a Montessori?
I would also become fluent with expectations for IDEA [I assume since you are a teacher you are]. But is it took months to be evaluated - that sounds outside procedural guidelines as published by OSSE. The school may not provide the equivalent of private services for OT and Speech - but your comment that "the school did not handle it well" is concerning.

Also - an aid is not an inclusion teacher - so if your child needs push in supports - the school needs to provide.