ADA Compliance with Fire Drills

[Anonymous]

So does she have a disability that prevents her from walking well or is it just because she is newly 2 and a lot of 2 yos have trouble with stairs? If it's the latter, I can see why they'd refuse because what if there are several 2 yos there and they all need to be carried in an emergency? It would not be the ADA I'm concerned about, but rather safety. This is why in my city, all daycares with young children are required to be on the first floor -- the teachers cannot safely escort a large group of non and barely mobile children out from higher floors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So does she have a disability that prevents her from walking well or is it just because she is newly 2 and a lot of 2 yos have trouble with stairs? If it's the latter, I can see why they'd refuse because what if there are several 2 yos there and they all need to be carried in an emergency? It would not be the ADA I'm concerned about, but rather safety. This is why in my city, all daycares with young children are required to be on the first floor -- the teachers cannot safely escort a large group of non and barely mobile children out from higher floors.

It's the former that she is disabled but improving every day. I do think she'll be walking by the end of this year. The stairs, I don't know when she will master those. It will be a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bit of a gray area. They have to provide "reasonable accomodations," which can vary by situation. Do they have a problem carrying her down the stairs? If so what is the problem and is there a "reasonable" method to overcome the problem. Maybe they can train staff to do a rescue carry? There are also specialized transport devices that can take adults down stairs, there are probably child versions. Can they afford to get one?

On the other hand, they can argue that keeping your kid in the infant room is in fact a reasonable accommodation, since they still would be providing appropriate care, even if not in the best location.

But keeping a 2 year old in an infant room is not appropriate care. It's a programmatic difference, not just a location difference.

OP, I would push back. Like another poster said, the reasonable accommodation can be putting a 2 year old classroom on the 1st floor or designating someone to carry her out. For the poster who thought the concern might be that all the teachers could get injured and so no one would be able to carry her out -- if that happened, it would be a problem for all the 2 year olds, since even 2 year olds without disabilities cannot safely evacuate a building by themselves.

The assumption is that they would be able to provide an appropriate program in that location. Moving an entire classroom is not reasonable if they don't have the space, which they probably don't.

[Anonymous]

I have a child with a disability such that he had both legs in casts for 10 weeks starting when he was 20 months old. After the casting, he had PT to learn how to walk again and do stairs, jump etc. When discussing accommodations with his daycare, we agreed that he could not be moved to the 2 YO classroom (upstairs) until he mastered going up and down stairs. The ratio for teachers to students did not support one on one with him as they went up and down multiple times a day. We agreed that a reasonable accommodation was to keep him in the younger classroom downstairs.

For our daycare, infants were in one space - but toddlers were in a different room.

are you saying that in your daycare they are keeping a 2 year old with 8 week olds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child with a disability such that he had both legs in casts for 10 weeks starting when he was 20 months old. After the casting, he had PT to learn how to walk again and do stairs, jump etc. When discussing accommodations with his daycare, we agreed that he could not be moved to the 2 YO classroom (upstairs) until he mastered going up and down stairs. The ratio for teachers to students did not support one on one with him as they went up and down multiple times a day. We agreed that a reasonable accommodation was to keep him in the younger classroom downstairs.

For our daycare, infants were in one space - but toddlers were in a different room.

are you saying that in your daycare they are keeping a 2 year old with 8 week olds?

No They want to keep her with the toddlers. There are two birthdays in December, hers is in a few weeks and the youngest is about 16 months. So it's not a huge difference but at some point we need to move her up to the 2 year old room before she will be able to go up and down the stairs. I assume that will be another 6-12 months.

[Anonymous]

Maybe she would be better off with a nanny and intensive PT until she is walking or a program for kids with similar needs. Yes, day cares should make reasonable accommodations but it is not their job to provide services outside the ordinary. If you want her to have 1-1 care, offer to pay for a full-time aide. The aides probably float and are not dedicated to one child. Your concern is valid but if you do not think they can meet her needs, you'll need to look elsewhere like many of us have had to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child with a disability such that he had both legs in casts for 10 weeks starting when he was 20 months old. After the casting, he had PT to learn how to walk again and do stairs, jump etc. When discussing accommodations with his daycare, we agreed that he could not be moved to the 2 YO classroom (upstairs) until he mastered going up and down stairs. The ratio for teachers to students did not support one on one with him as they went up and down multiple times a day. We agreed that a reasonable accommodation was to keep him in the younger classroom downstairs.

For our daycare, infants were in one space - but toddlers were in a different room.

are you saying that in your daycare they are keeping a 2 year old with 8 week olds?

No They want to keep her with the toddlers. There are two birthdays in December, hers is in a few weeks and the youngest is about 16 months. So it's not a huge difference but at some point we need to move her up to the 2 year old room before she will be able to go up and down the stairs. I assume that will be another 6-12 months.

If she is not walking, they are going by physical/developmental needs, same as it would be with Potty Training. That's pretty normal. She'd have a hard time keeping up with the other kids.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, in DC the required teacher/child ratio at age 2 is 1:4, so it is not like a PP suggested that there are a huge number of kids per teacher. If she can walk down the stairs while holding hands, I see no reason why it would not be a reasonable accommodation to ask that a teacher hold her hand during a fire drill.

I'd also don't see what's wrong with teaching her to butt scoot down stairs, in addition to having the accommodation of holding a hand. I'd think you need more upper body strength than lower.

You guys are crazy if you think that agreeing an adult will hold a child's hand down the stairs is so unreasonable that the center can refuse to move the child up to an age or skill-appropriate room.

Also, contrary to a PPs suggestion, a kid who is late to potty training due to a disability can't be denied a spot in an age appropriate room if that is the only accommodation issue. Go read some ADA cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So does she have a disability that prevents her from walking well or is it just because she is newly 2 and a lot of 2 yos have trouble with stairs? If it's the latter, I can see why they'd refuse because what if there are several 2 yos there and they all need to be carried in an emergency? It would not be the ADA I'm concerned about, but rather safety. This is why in my city, all daycares with young children are required to be on the first floor -- the teachers cannot safely escort a large group of non and barely mobile children out from higher floors.

If the issue is that lots of 2 year olds have trouble with the stairs, then they would definitely be obliged to accommodate her because all 2 year olds would need to be accommodated. In that scenario, the daycare would be better advised to have the two year old classroom on the ground floor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, in DC the required teacher/child ratio at age 2 is 1:4, so it is not like a PP suggested that there are a huge number of kids per teacher. If she can walk down the stairs while holding hands, I see no reason why it would not be a reasonable accommodation to ask that a teacher hold her hand during a fire drill.

I'd also don't see what's wrong with teaching her to butt scoot down stairs, in addition to having the accommodation of holding a hand. I'd think you need more upper body strength than lower.

You guys are crazy if you think that agreeing an adult will hold a child's hand down the stairs is so unreasonable that the center can refuse to move the child up to an age or skill-appropriate room.

Also, contrary to a PPs suggestion, a kid who is late to potty training due to a disability can't be denied a spot in an age appropriate room if that is the only accommodation issue. Go read some ADA cases.

In MD the required ratio for a 2-yo room is 1:6, with a maximum of 12 children in a group. In VA the required ratio is 1:8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, in DC the required teacher/child ratio at age 2 is 1:4, so it is not like a PP suggested that there are a huge number of kids per teacher. If she can walk down the stairs while holding hands, I see no reason why it would not be a reasonable accommodation to ask that a teacher hold her hand during a fire drill.

I'd also don't see what's wrong with teaching her to butt scoot down stairs, in addition to having the accommodation of holding a hand. I'd think you need more upper body strength than lower.

You guys are crazy if you think that agreeing an adult will hold a child's hand down the stairs is so unreasonable that the center can refuse to move the child up to an age or skill-appropriate room.

Also, contrary to a PPs suggestion, a kid who is late to potty training due to a disability can't be denied a spot in an age appropriate room if that is the only accommodation issue. Go read some ADA cases.

How about, before you call people crazy, you go back and reread the original post to make sure you're not screwing up the premise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child with a disability such that he had both legs in casts for 10 weeks starting when he was 20 months old. After the casting, he had PT to learn how to walk again and do stairs, jump etc. When discussing accommodations with his daycare, we agreed that he could not be moved to the 2 YO classroom (upstairs) until he mastered going up and down stairs. The ratio for teachers to students did not support one on one with him as they went up and down multiple times a day. We agreed that a reasonable accommodation was to keep him in the younger classroom downstairs.

For our daycare, infants were in one space - but toddlers were in a different room.

are you saying that in your daycare they are keeping a 2 year old with 8 week olds?

No They want to keep her with the toddlers. There are two birthdays in December, hers is in a few weeks and the youngest is about 16 months. So it's not a huge difference but at some point we need to move her up to the 2 year old room before she will be able to go up and down the stairs. I assume that will be another 6-12 months.

So right now she is ~23 months old and is in a daycare room with children 16 months - 23 months. She can't walk independently, can walk upstairs holding hands but needs to be carried down stairs and you think based on feedback from a medical professional that it might be 6 - 12 months before she is able to do stairs independently.

In my experience with moving classrooms with daycares, there was a range for when a child was moved. The biggest factor - ratios and when children left the daycare from the oldest classroom. It was not uncommon that a child would be in the 2 year old until almost 3 because the 4 year old class did not move any kids until the end of the school year - which meant the 3 YO class did not move etc. If this is the case for your daycare, I would wait and see where things are in a few months - as well as where walking independently is. A lot can change in 3 months- but you know your child's developmental challenges best.

You might want to work with an placement through the county as based on how you explained the developmental delay, this is a situation that might benefit from more intensive physical therapy that what you can get through the daycare.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, in DC the required teacher/child ratio at age 2 is 1:4, so it is not like a PP suggested that there are a huge number of kids per teacher. If she can walk down the stairs while holding hands, I see no reason why it would not be a reasonable accommodation to ask that a teacher hold her hand during a fire drill.

I'd also don't see what's wrong with teaching her to butt scoot down stairs, in addition to having the accommodation of holding a hand. I'd think you need more upper body strength than lower.

You guys are crazy if you think that agreeing an adult will hold a child's hand down the stairs is so unreasonable that the center can refuse to move the child up to an age or skill-appropriate room.

Also, contrary to a PPs suggestion, a kid who is late to potty training due to a disability can't be denied a spot in an age appropriate room if that is the only accommodation issue. Go read some ADA cases.

According to the ADA website, if a facility does not normally provide diapering to any child, they don't have to provide it to a disabled child. In cases where the facility does provide diapering, they have to consider how to reasonably accommodate an older child who requires it, but can turn the child on a case-by-case basis if they can't.


https://www.ada.gov/childqanda.htm

15. Q: We diaper young children, but we have a policy that we will not accept children more than three years of age who need diapering. Can we reject children older than three who need diapering because of a disability?
A: Generally, no. Centers that provide personal services such as diapering or toileting assistance for young children must reasonably modify their policies and provide diapering services for older children who need it due to a disability. Generally speaking, centers that diaper infants should diaper older children with disabilities when they would not have to leave other children unattended to do so.

Centers must also provide diapering services to young children with disabilities who may need it more often than others their age.

Some children will need assistance in transferring to and from the toilet because of mobility or coordination problems. Centers should not consider this type of assistance to be a "personal service."


16. Q: We do not normally diaper children of any age who are not toilet trained. Do we still have to help older children who need diapering or toileting assistance due to a disability?
A: It depends. To determine when it is a reasonable modification to provide diapering for an older child who needs diapering because of a disability and a center does not normally provide diapering, the center should consider factors including, but not limited to, (1) whether other non-disabled children are young enough to need intermittent toileting assistance when, for instance, they have accidents; (2) whether providing toileting assistance or diapering on a regular basis would require a child care provider to leave other children unattended; and (3) whether the center would have to purchase diapering tables or other equipment.

If the program never provides toileting assistance to any child, however, then such a personal service would not be required for a child with a disability. Please keep in mind that even in these circumstances, the child could not be excluded from the program because he or she was not toilet trained if the center can make other arrangements, such as having a parent or personal assistant come and do the diapering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she would be better off with a nanny and intensive PT until she is walking or a program for kids with similar needs. Yes, day cares should make reasonable accommodations but it is not their job to provide services outside the ordinary. If you want her to have 1-1 care, offer to pay for a full-time aide. The aides probably float and are not dedicated to one child. Your concern is valid but if you do not think they can meet her needs, you'll need to look elsewhere like many of us have had to do.

It IS their job to follow the law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, in DC the required teacher/child ratio at age 2 is 1:4, so it is not like a PP suggested that there are a huge number of kids per teacher. If she can walk down the stairs while holding hands, I see no reason why it would not be a reasonable accommodation to ask that a teacher hold her hand during a fire drill.

I'd also don't see what's wrong with teaching her to butt scoot down stairs, in addition to having the accommodation of holding a hand. I'd think you need more upper body strength than lower.

You guys are crazy if you think that agreeing an adult will hold a child's hand down the stairs is so unreasonable that the center can refuse to move the child up to an age or skill-appropriate room.

Also, contrary to a PPs suggestion, a kid who is late to potty training due to a disability can't be denied a spot in an age appropriate room if that is the only accommodation issue. Go read some ADA cases.

In VA it's 8:1 which is where OP is.