Hitting with ADHD?

[Anonymous]

My child had some issues with hitting/pushing. One of the things we did was that there was always a consequence - either a time out, grounding, or no TV/computer. ADHD kids have trouble controlling their impulses, but they CAN do it. Also some doctors will medicate at age 5 even though American Associates of Pediatrics recommends not to medicate until age 6.

[Anonymous]

I remember spending hours on google when my son was 2 trying to find anyone talking about kids hitting when they weren't "frustrated". There was NOTHING about this. My son has always been an exceptionally happy kid, but at age 2 would go up to another kid at the park from behind and randomly push them. He didn't care if another kid took his toys, but if another kid was playing with toys in his personal space, he might bonk that kid on the head. He would push and pull kids in line once he started school, and do all kinds of other physical space intrusions that were not okay. It was mortifying and stressful. None of it was in any way related to his emotions (I..e, it was anger, frustration, over enthusiasm). It was almost like a reflex action where he was dealing with other people in his space. He was not remorseful, because from his perspective the event wasn't an interaction with another person.

Preschool was really hard for us. Lots of tears (other kids, not him).

I spent so much time on google and found almost nothing. I figured adhd or aspergers was a possibility, but so much of what's written about those two things is about kids being hyperactive (my son was busy, but not off the charts) and being inattentive (he is not inattentive). His first preschool I am baffled there is not more guidance out there about 2-5 years olds and (non-angry) adhd hitting.

We started meds at just shy of his 5th birthday and it has been a godsend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child had some issues with hitting/pushing. One of the things we did was that there was always a consequence - either a time out, grounding, or no TV/computer. ADHD kids have trouble controlling their impulses, but they CAN do it. Also some doctors will medicate at age 5 even though American Associates of Pediatrics recommends not to medicate until age 6.

When my son was in preschool and before meds, he was entirely unable to control his impulses. hitting was like a tic reaction. When he started meds, the hitting stopped -- even in frustration and anger. He'll raise his hand like he's angry and wants to hit, and stop himself. He was doing that the day he started meds. As in: he already knew the rules/consequences, but literally could not stop himself before meds. Consequences for a 3 year old adhd don't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember spending hours on google when my son was 2 trying to find anyone talking about kids hitting when they weren't "frustrated". There was NOTHING about this. My son has always been an exceptionally happy kid, but at age 2 would go up to another kid at the park from behind and randomly push them. He didn't care if another kid took his toys, but if another kid was playing with toys in his personal space, he might bonk that kid on the head. He would push and pull kids in line once he started school, and do all kinds of other physical space intrusions that were not okay. It was mortifying and stressful. None of it was in any way related to his emotions (I..e, it was anger, frustration, over enthusiasm). It was almost like a reflex action where he was dealing with other people in his space. He was not remorseful, because from his perspective the event wasn't an interaction with another person.

Preschool was really hard for us. Lots of tears (other kids, not him).

I spent so much time on google and found almost nothing. I figured adhd or aspergers was a possibility, but so much of what's written about those two things is about kids being hyperactive (my son was busy, but not off the charts) and being inattentive (he is not inattentive). His first preschool I am baffled there is not more guidance out there about 2-5 years olds and (non-angry) adhd hitting.

We started meds at just shy of his 5th birthday and it has been a godsend.

My kid also did/does this. Meds have not helped him. He clearly has ADHD but he can't tolerate stimulants so we are trying others. I agree that kids with ADHD don't have to be frustrated to exhibit this behavior - my kid's speech is fine for example, which is one reason that is often given. My son does have motor planning and perioreceptive issues, and he is very big for his age, so often other kids will be roughhousing, he tries to take part, someone gets hurt. My son also just really likes bumping into people because he is a major sensory seeker - I can see it coming on in say a bounce house or trampoline situation. he tries to create opportunities to collide. It is not out of any kind of maliciousness but its obviously not fair to other children so for now we just have to watch him very closely. It is very very stressful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Just curious, for parents who have ADHD kids, do you tell people what your kid's diagnosis is to explain their behavior? Or say nothing?

No one thinks my kid has ASD or ADHD both of which he has so I say nothing. Generally, people have a very stereotypical view of how these diagnosis "look like".

We don't tell random people about DS's ASD & ADHD and people rarely suspect for the same reason PP said. I have told several people I work with that I turn to for advice (parents of older kids with ASD, ADHD, LD, or some combination) and of course DS's teachers. I will usually tell coaches / instructors of outside activities if I think it will help but sometimes I don't see a need. For example, his TKD master handles him so well I see no need to get into a discussion on diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember spending hours on google when my son was 2 trying to find anyone talking about kids hitting when they weren't "frustrated". There was NOTHING about this. My son has always been an exceptionally happy kid, but at age 2 would go up to another kid at the park from behind and randomly push them. He didn't care if another kid took his toys, but if another kid was playing with toys in his personal space, he might bonk that kid on the head. He would push and pull kids in line once he started school, and do all kinds of other physical space intrusions that were not okay. It was mortifying and stressful. None of it was in any way related to his emotions (I..e, it was anger, frustration, over enthusiasm). It was almost like a reflex action where he was dealing with other people in his space. He was not remorseful, because from his perspective the event wasn't an interaction with another person.

Preschool was really hard for us. Lots of tears (other kids, not him).

I spent so much time on google and found almost nothing. I figured adhd or aspergers was a possibility, but so much of what's written about those two things is about kids being hyperactive (my son was busy, but not off the charts) and being inattentive (he is not inattentive). His first preschool I am baffled there is not more guidance out there about 2-5 years olds and (non-angry) adhd hitting.

We started meds at just shy of his 5th birthday and it has been a godsend.

My kid also did/does this. Meds have not helped him. He clearly has ADHD but he can't tolerate stimulants so we are trying others. I agree that kids with ADHD don't have to be frustrated to exhibit this behavior - my kid's speech is fine for example, which is one reason that is often given. My son does have motor planning and perioreceptive issues, and he is very big for his age, so often other kids will be roughhousing, he tries to take part, someone gets hurt. My son also just really likes bumping into people because he is a major sensory seeker - I can see it coming on in say a bounce house or trampoline situation. he tries to create opportunities to collide. It is not out of any kind of maliciousness but its obviously not fair to other children so for now we just have to watch him very closely. It is very very stressful.

This is my younger DS. He's in K now and has had improvement on keeping himself to himself, but it's a struggle. I remember when he was 2, when they were in the car, he'd kick his brother just to get a reaction .. nothing malicious. Now he'll chase people around to give them a hug and refuses to take "no" for an answer. Especially in the fall we got lots of notes about "hitting" at school which was then clarified by the teacher that he wasn't trying to hurt anybody and wasn't angry ... but he was physically interacting with other kids in ways that were not welcome. My understanding now is this is very common with kids with ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Has sensory processing disorder been ruled out? I assume so given you are working with a developmental ped, but wondered since it can closely align with ADHD, but isn't ADHD (and also not a spectrum disorder in 80% of cases).

[Anonymous]

I must confess I don’t have personal experience with this issue but I sympathize. It must make like in your family more difficult and no one needs that! It sounds like you are doing a good job of being on top of the behavior. There is a good site here[http://bit.ly/2nkqzQ8] that gives a lot of options to you as far as research and you may find it helpful. Alternatively, if you do a search on ADHD and diet you will find a lot of material and maybe some new ideas. Maybe it won’t take medication out of the mix but it may still effect a favorable change in your DDs behavior.

[Anonymous]

OP again. Thanks so much for everyone's input, advice and anecdotes. So, so helpful right now!

I don't think I can squeeze in everything everyone asked, but about diet – we have her on omega 3s by Nordic Naturals. Our developmental pediatrician, who actually also diagnosed my son with ADHD, says he believes they can help. We also try to make sure she runs around outside as much as possible when it's not too yucky out. She helps in the garden, makes mud puddles on her own with her watering can and puts her rubber boots on and goes to it. One of my favorite things about her. She is absolutely not a sit-at-the-table-and-do-crafts kind of kid. If there is a sensory component, our doctor feels it's mild and not out of the range of normal for the age, though I personally think some of her behavior leans toward the sensory seeking side, if anything. But it's not overwhelming.

So interesting reading some of your stories. To the PP who described the hitting as a reflex rather than a premeditated action – yes! That's exactly it! I know she knows it's wrong, because afterward, she will hug the person and say sorry. But she just can't help herself when someone gets in her space too fast and too quickly AND she doesn't know them. We were at a playgroup recently and it was a nanny instead of one of the moms that day and the nanny went to take her hand to show her something she thought she would like (too much too fast, I thought) and my daughter began to pull away, couldn't get away, and smacked the nanny's arm with an open hand. Not hard. But I was embarrassed, despite the fact that my first thought was, "Wow, I bet she was scared because she didn't know who that was." I understand it, but sometimes I still feel a bit mortified by it. We are trying to teach her instead to say, "Go away, please," or "I'm not ready, " or even just "No! Stop it!" But given that my 11 year old is only just now getting good at being able to think thoughtfully proactively ahead of time about his actions before he does something, I'm guessing I'm going to be in this for a bit.

We are looking probably to start meds when she is 6, and trying everything else in the meantime. She IS able to use mindfulness already and will take a 2-minute timeout and calm down within 45 seconds doing deep breathing, counting to 10 and saying, "Calm down," to herself very slowly and quietly. I have been very impressed with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks so much for everyone's input, advice and anecdotes. So, so helpful right now!

I don't think I can squeeze in everything everyone asked, but about diet – we have her on omega 3s by Nordic Naturals. Our developmental pediatrician, who actually also diagnosed my son with ADHD, says he believes they can help. We also try to make sure she runs around outside as much as possible when it's not too yucky out. She helps in the garden, makes mud puddles on her own with her watering can and puts her rubber boots on and goes to it. One of my favorite things about her. She is absolutely not a sit-at-the-table-and-do-crafts kind of kid. If there is a sensory component, our doctor feels it's mild and not out of the range of normal for the age, though I personally think some of her behavior leans toward the sensory seeking side, if anything. But it's not overwhelming.

So interesting reading some of your stories. To the PP who described the hitting as a reflex rather than a premeditated action – yes! That's exactly it! I know she knows it's wrong, because afterward, she will hug the person and say sorry. But she just can't help herself when someone gets in her space too fast and too quickly AND she doesn't know them. We were at a playgroup recently and it was a nanny instead of one of the moms that day and the nanny went to take her hand to show her something she thought she would like (too much too fast, I thought) and my daughter began to pull away, couldn't get away, and smacked the nanny's arm with an open hand. Not hard. But I was embarrassed, despite the fact that my first thought was, "Wow, I bet she was scared because she didn't know who that was." I understand it, but sometimes I still feel a bit mortified by it. We are trying to teach her instead to say, "Go away, please," or "I'm not ready, " or even just "No! Stop it!" But given that my 11 year old is only just now getting good at being able to think thoughtfully proactively ahead of time about his actions before he does something, I'm guessing I'm going to be in this for a bit.

We are looking probably to start meds when she is 6, and trying everything else in the meantime. She IS able to use mindfulness already and will take a 2-minute timeout and calm down within 45 seconds doing deep breathing, counting to 10 and saying, "Calm down," to herself very slowly and quietly. I have been very impressed with that.

I think the same kid can have sensory seeking and avoiding areas. My sensory seeking 6yo (I posted about how he used to just kick his brother in car) is also avoidant when it comes to clothing. Fortunately we're not planning to send him to a school with a dress code, but he flat refuses anything other than athletic pants or sweatpants and we ended up dropping soccer because he couldn't stand the socks and shin guards.

I do wonder if there is a gender component with your daughter .. not to her behavior but the reaction from other people. It can be a lot less acceptable for girls to be rough and tumble, assertive about personal space, or even just telling an adult "no" about anything.

[Anonymous]

Please, take her for an OT evaluation for sensory processing...I so wish I'd done that with my child at age 5, but we waited a couple of years before that.
Why did we wait?
Pediatricians generally don't mesh so much with OT...neither do psychologists/psychiatrists...every specialty seems to be in their own little bubble.

OT has changed things drastically for our child--that, and ADHD/ADD meds...but it's an on going life situation.

Your daughter sound like she has sensory seeking behavior--the pushing, etc. OT will help.

[Anonymous]

Meant to add we waited because no one recommended it...mostly the psychologist and the pediatrician said that while our child was not on the spectrum, it could be 'something else' ... but no one would put a point on it.

I had never heard of sensory processing disorder--everything makes sense now, at least of my child's behavior. I just wish we had started OT at age 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks so much for everyone's input, advice and anecdotes. So, so helpful right now!

I don't think I can squeeze in everything everyone asked, but about diet – we have her on omega 3s by Nordic Naturals. Our developmental pediatrician, who actually also diagnosed my son with ADHD, says he believes they can help. We also try to make sure she runs around outside as much as possible when it's not too yucky out. She helps in the garden, makes mud puddles on her own with her watering can and puts her rubber boots on and goes to it. One of my favorite things about her. She is absolutely not a sit-at-the-table-and-do-crafts kind of kid. If there is a sensory component, our doctor feels it's mild and not out of the range of normal for the age, though I personally think some of her behavior leans toward the sensory seeking side, if anything. But it's not overwhelming.

So interesting reading some of your stories. To the PP who described the hitting as a reflex rather than a premeditated action – yes! That's exactly it! I know she knows it's wrong, because afterward, she will hug the person and say sorry. But she just can't help herself when someone gets in her space too fast and too quickly AND she doesn't know them. We were at a playgroup recently and it was a nanny instead of one of the moms that day and the nanny went to take her hand to show her something she thought she would like (too much too fast, I thought) and my daughter began to pull away, couldn't get away, and smacked the nanny's arm with an open hand. Not hard. But I was embarrassed, despite the fact that my first thought was, "Wow, I bet she was scared because she didn't know who that was." I understand it, but sometimes I still feel a bit mortified by it. We are trying to teach her instead to say, "Go away, please," or "I'm not ready, " or even just "No! Stop it!" But given that my 11 year old is only just now getting good at being able to think thoughtfully proactively ahead of time about his actions before he does something, I'm guessing I'm going to be in this for a bit.

Nordic is a great brand and brands make a difference with supplements. Sounds like you have a wonderful doctor who thinks outside the box a bit. I would urge you to do the search for ADHA and diet. Even WebMD (not my favorite site) has something about doing an elimination diet. Another article outlines the 7 terrible foods for ADHA (but a lot of them have the same ingredient: sugar): fast food, soda, candy, frozen foods that have artificial coloring, cake mixes and frostings, energy drinks, fish and other seafood that may have mercury. In addition, there are known common foods that cause problems: milk, chocolate, soy, wheat, eggs, beans, corn, tomatoes, grapes, and oranges. I didn't have ADHD but had health challenges that caused me to look into these things and believe me, sounds weird but makes a huge difference. I urge you to try the elimination diet to see if that helps. It is a pain to do but could make a very big change. Good luck!

We are looking probably to start meds when she is 6, and trying everything else in the meantime. She IS able to use mindfulness already and will take a 2-minute timeout and calm down within 45 seconds doing deep breathing, counting to 10 and saying, "Calm down," to herself very slowly and quietly. I have been very impressed with that.