Tell me about moving from DC to Baltimore with kids.

[Anonymous]

Your crime info, actually all your info, is outdated, there has been an uptick over the past five years, even in Roland Park. Perhaps you are unaware that Baltimore is on track this year for one of the worst murder rates in its storied history. Yes, it is mostly mugging, some at gun point, and property crimes in rp, but it is grossly understating the issue to compare to nw D.C..

Most people in rp continue to use privates, not rp elementary. Sounds like you don't know many families With young kids in Baltimore. For the record, my kids go to the rp privates currently and we have lived in Baltimore for past 10 years.

Rp elementary has far more neighborhood kids than adecade ago, but half the school is bussed in from other neighborhoods, The farms rate reflects that.


The $130 million shortfall in the school budget is a huge issue.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Roland Park and my parents still live there (residents of the last 40 years), along with many friends.

Crime in Roland Park is comparable to NW DC. The occasional house break-in, the occasional car break-in, the occasional bicycle theft. FYI my parents' house has never been broken into nor cars tampered with, although we did have bicycles stolen once - 25 years ago. The murder was tragic and remains unsolved and the thinking is it was someone who knew the victim well. It's also the only murder I remember happening in Roland Park in my lifetime. NW DC and Georgetown have had murders in the not too distant past too.

You are right that RPEMS is becoming overcrowded due to its popularity. Just about everyone wants to get into the school, a big change from my childhood when everyone was avoiding it. But as a reference, my mother attended RPEMS for elementary school (she grew up in Homeland) and in the 1950s RPEMS also had 30-35 students to a class and was regarded as one of the best schools in the entire Baltimore metro area. My father's affluent Pennsylvania suburb's elementary school also had around 35 students per class and this was an idyllic suburb. While I personally wouldn't be wild about 30 kids to a class for my kid, people seem to cope with the popularity of RPEMS.

The housing market in North Baltimore is tight with little inventory. 650k can get you a house in good shape in Homeland / Orchards zoned for RPEMS, when one does come onto the market. Within RP it's more complicated to come up with the typical prices due to the wide range of housing, but there are few shabby properties to begin with. And, of course, people's tastes and expectations vary greatly. DC area people tend to consider a house to need work if it doesn't have the latest fancy kitchen, even if the house is structurally sound and needs minimal cosmetic improvements. Baltimore people are more pragmatic and less demanding. Only the OP knows what she expects from her budget.

As for being walkable, RP is similar to NW DC without the metro. Best to think of it as partially walkable with a limited range of amenities that you can walk to, but it is possible to organize your life around them. That's what my parents do. They walk to Eddies, the library, post office, a handful of eateries, and that's what they're happy with. I even had childhood friends whose parents took the bus to work downtown. The most walkable areas are going to be the waterfront neighborhoods, particularly Canton/Federal Hill/Fells Point.

OP, families with kids in Baltimore love living in Baltimore. It'll probably shock many DC people but all my friends and siblings in Baltimore say the same thing: it's a great place to raise a family, whether they're in the city or the suburbs. Have you also looked at Mount Washington (zoned for Mount Washington Elementary?). I've heard good things about several charter programs catering to families in the Canton and Federal Hill area.

Anonymous wrote:Here is the reality:

$650,000 in RP will be partially but not fully renovated, taxes will be approximately $13,000.

Your car will be broken into on a fairly regular basis if you leave unlocked, bikes stolen, etc . . . Only one murder in RP last year, but a number of muggings

RP elementary is overcrowded, 30 kids minimum in a class. You will never get lucky with a small class, kids are bussed in if there is any room, and the city has a $130 million shortfall in the school budget that the governor apparently cares nothing about.

Few people uses the public middle or high school, even in RP. Private school or at least parochial school is probably a given if you care about school quality.

There is no other walkable neighborhood, though Homeland is nice, it has little retail and same issues with schools.

[Anonymous]

And, btw, when an older women is knifed to death when walking her dogs on a dimly lit stretch of sidewalk at night, and there have been three other unsolved muggings by knife in the vicinity in the immediate prior weeks, there are very few people who think her killer is someone who knew her.

OP, you already know the charms of RP, if you can make peace with the extremely high property taxes, mediocre schools, and crime issues, and a fair amount of people do every year, then go for it. But RP is far gritter than Cleveland Park, and the city itself far more incompetent (you won't see a snow plow for days, for example, after a snow storm).

[Anonymous]

Yes, BTDT. I also love Baltimore for raising a family. We also looked to buy in Roland Park but ended up in Ruxton, in the county. Less crime, lower taxes, and better houses and schools but you do give up some walkability. However, people are always out in our neighborhood and my neighbors are terrific, interesting people -- Hopkins doctors and researchers, leaders of companies, people in finance, and people who have jobs like yours that allow them to work remotely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, BTDT. I also love Baltimore for raising a family. We also looked to buy in Roland Park but ended up in Ruxton, in the county. Less crime, lower taxes, and better houses and schools but you do give up some walkability. However, people are always out in our neighborhood and my neighbors are terrific, interesting people -- Hopkins doctors and researchers, leaders of companies, people in finance, and people who have jobs like yours that allow them to work remotely.

I should have added that the housing in portions of Ruxton and the neighborhoods feeding into Riderwood will be considerably more expensive than your housing budget. Moving from a row house in DC into a section of B'more or B'more county with good schools isn't as cheap as it might seem.

[Anonymous]

Pp again, we live here only because my Dh has a fantastic job in Baltimore. I have lived in several other cities including dc, and would not chose Baltimore over any of them. It is a pretty insular city with a good amount of born and bred folks who aren't looking for new friends. Job oppportunies are limited if you ever wanted to change jobs
. the commute to dc, which I also have done, can easily take 2 hours one way. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would chose to live here if they would not be working in Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp again, we live here only because my Dh has a fantastic job in Baltimore. I have lived in several other cities including dc, and would not chose Baltimore over any of them. It is a pretty insular city with a good amount of born and bred folks who aren't looking for new friends. Job oppportunies are limited if you ever wanted to change jobs
. the commute to dc, which I also have done, can easily take 2 hours one way. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would chose to live here if they would not be working in Baltimore.

I lived in Baltimore City over 25 years ago - I was single and did not know the schools but I can easily see why someone would commute from there. The insular folks give it some character, which no part of DC can match - and it is not hard to find friends who are not insular. Its a charming wonderful place - I lived in a row house neighborhood close to housing projects and was never mugged - though I have been mugged in Georgetown.

I left because of the aforesaid thin jobs market. At this point in my life (again no kids at home) I could see moving back to there - but to live walking distance to Penn Station, and it would be far easier if I worked close to Union Station (I do not). Also I have come to value biking to work, so that would be a problem. Of course back then there was no worldwideweb, laptop computers were expensive and rare, so what you could do on the train was fairly limited.

I would not commute by car from the City to downtown DC or to NoVa. But I hate long car commutes in general. If I had a job in Howard County I could definitely see commuting from Baltimore City.

[Anonymous]

People looking for a Wisteria lane type perfection aren't going to find that in Baltimore, city or suburbs. But to make allegations that Roland Park, one of the loveliest neighborhoods on the East Coast, is "gritty" says more about the person making the comment than it does about Roland Park or Baltimore.

The city is not perfect. People who live in Baltimore know this. And have made their peace with it. Which is why many are happy and Baltimore can provide a great quality of life if you don't demand perfection. There's a reason why Roland Park has very little turnover and families stay for decades.

There are plenty of people who commute to DC and have done so for decades. It's not for everyone, but they have decided it's worth it. OP, only you will know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People looking for a Wisteria lane type perfection aren't going to find that in Baltimore, city or suburbs. But to make allegations that Roland Park, one of the loveliest neighborhoods on the East Coast, is "gritty" says more about the person making the comment than it does about Roland Park or Baltimore.

The city is not perfect. People who live in Baltimore know this. And have made their peace with it. Which is why many are happy and Baltimore can provide a great quality of life if you don't demand perfection. There's a reason why Roland Park has very little turnover and families stay for decades.

There are plenty of people who commute to DC and have done so for decades. It's not for everyone, but they have decided it's worth it. OP, only you will know.

Sounds like it's the "I grew up in RP" two decades ago poster, who loves to romanticize it. There is quite a bit of turnover in RP, there is always a good number of houses available for purchase each spring, and I personally know at least a dozen families with school age kids that have decamped for the suburbs over the last few years.

My friends who live there complain constantly about petty crime, property taxes, and the school situation (most who start at RP elementary transfer to a private by sixth grade but bitch constantly about the class sizes).

Calling RP "one of the nicest neighborhoods in the east coast" is a more than a bit of an overstatement.

Couples with one person working in Baltimore and one work remotely or dc exist. Couples were neither has a job in Baltimore but live here, uncommon. Try the drive to the train station, and commute on the MARC, or drive to dc just once and you'll understand the headache it is. Baltimore has no equivalent to the dc metro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People looking for a Wisteria lane type perfection aren't going to find that in Baltimore, city or suburbs. But to make allegations that Roland Park, one of the loveliest neighborhoods on the East Coast, is "gritty" says more about the person making the comment than it does about Roland Park or Baltimore.

The city is not perfect. People who live in Baltimore know this. And have made their peace with it. Which is why many are happy and Baltimore can provide a great quality of life if you don't demand perfection. There's a reason why Roland Park has very little turnover and families stay for decades.

There are plenty of people who commute to DC and have done so for decades. It's not for everyone, but they have decided it's worth it. OP, only you will know.

Sounds like it's the "I grew up in RP" two decades ago poster, who loves to romanticize it. There is quite a bit of turnover in RP, there is always a good number of houses available for purchase each spring, and I personally know at least a dozen families with school age kids that have decamped for the suburbs over the last few years.

My friends who live there complain constantly about petty crime, property taxes, and the school situation (most who start at RP elementary transfer to a private by sixth grade but bitch constantly about the class sizes).

Calling RP "one of the nicest neighborhoods in the east coast" is a more than a bit of an overstatement.

Couples with one person working in Baltimore and one work remotely or dc exist. Couples were neither has a job in Baltimore but live here, uncommon. Try the drive to the train station, and commute on the MARC, or drive to dc just once and you'll understand the headache it is. Baltimore has no equivalent to the dc metro.

When I lived in Bolton Hill people moved to RP for the schools and lower crime.

Baltimore does have a metro line but doesn't do much for you if you live in RP.

I also do not think of RP as gritty. But I am thinking of that as a physical description.

[Anonymous]

Gritty wasn't meant as a physical description.

It means that you can't leave a door unlocked or a car window down, a bike out in the front yard, go safely to the atm at night, and are often subjected to police helicopters overhead due to proximity of "bad" neighborhoods.

There are recent incidents of old ladies being mugged at gunpoint outside petit Louis restaurant, and a year or two ago, multiple muggings of joggers mugged, also at gunpoint


Aesthetically. Not gritty but that wasn't what I meant.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like DC to tell you the truth.

Anonymous wrote:Gritty wasn't meant as a physical description.

It means that you can't leave a door unlocked or a car window down, a bike out in the front yard, go safely to the atm at night, and are often subjected to police helicopters overhead due to proximity of "bad" neighborhoods.

There are recent incidents of old ladies being mugged at gunpoint outside petit Louis restaurant, and a year or two ago, multiple muggings of joggers mugged, also at gunpoint


Aesthetically. Not gritty but that wasn't what I meant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your crime info, actually all your info, is outdated, there has been an uptick over the past five years, even in Roland Park. Perhaps you are unaware that Baltimore is on track this year for one of the worst murder rates in its storied history. Yes, it is mostly mugging, some at gun point, and property crimes in rp, but it is grossly understating the issue to compare to nw D.C..

Most people in rp continue to use privates, not rp elementary. Sounds like you don't know many families With young kids in Baltimore. For the record, my kids go to the rp privates currently and we have lived in Baltimore for past 10 years.

Rp elementary has far more neighborhood kids than adecade ago, but half the school is bussed in from other neighborhoods, The farms rate reflects that.


The $130 million shortfall in the school budget is a huge issue.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Roland Park and my parents still live there (residents of the last 40 years), along with many friends.

Crime in Roland Park is comparable to NW DC. The occasional house break-in, the occasional car break-in, the occasional bicycle theft. FYI my parents' house has never been broken into nor cars tampered with, although we did have bicycles stolen once - 25 years ago. The murder was tragic and remains unsolved and the thinking is it was someone who knew the victim well. It's also the only murder I remember happening in Roland Park in my lifetime. NW DC and Georgetown have had murders in the not too distant past too.

You are right that RPEMS is becoming overcrowded due to its popularity. Just about everyone wants to get into the school, a big change from my childhood when everyone was avoiding it. But as a reference, my mother attended RPEMS for elementary school (she grew up in Homeland) and in the 1950s RPEMS also had 30-35 students to a class and was regarded as one of the best schools in the entire Baltimore metro area. My father's affluent Pennsylvania suburb's elementary school also had around 35 students per class and this was an idyllic suburb. While I personally wouldn't be wild about 30 kids to a class for my kid, people seem to cope with the popularity of RPEMS.

The housing market in North Baltimore is tight with little inventory. 650k can get you a house in good shape in Homeland / Orchards zoned for RPEMS, when one does come onto the market. Within RP it's more complicated to come up with the typical prices due to the wide range of housing, but there are few shabby properties to begin with. And, of course, people's tastes and expectations vary greatly. DC area people tend to consider a house to need work if it doesn't have the latest fancy kitchen, even if the house is structurally sound and needs minimal cosmetic improvements. Baltimore people are more pragmatic and less demanding. Only the OP knows what she expects from her budget.

As for being walkable, RP is similar to NW DC without the metro. Best to think of it as partially walkable with a limited range of amenities that you can walk to, but it is possible to organize your life around them. That's what my parents do. They walk to Eddies, the library, post office, a handful of eateries, and that's what they're happy with. I even had childhood friends whose parents took the bus to work downtown. The most walkable areas are going to be the waterfront neighborhoods, particularly Canton/Federal Hill/Fells Point.

OP, families with kids in Baltimore love living in Baltimore. It'll probably shock many DC people but all my friends and siblings in Baltimore say the same thing: it's a great place to raise a family, whether they're in the city or the suburbs. Have you also looked at Mount Washington (zoned for Mount Washington Elementary?). I've heard good things about several charter programs catering to families in the Canton and Federal Hill area.

Anonymous wrote:Here is the reality:

$650,000 in RP will be partially but not fully renovated, taxes will be approximately $13,000.

Your car will be broken into on a fairly regular basis if you leave unlocked, bikes stolen, etc . . . Only one murder in RP last year, but a number of muggings

RP elementary is overcrowded, 30 kids minimum in a class. You will never get lucky with a small class, kids are bussed in if there is any room, and the city has a $130 million shortfall in the school budget that the governor apparently cares nothing about.

Few people uses the public middle or high school, even in RP. Private school or at least parochial school is probably a given if you care about school quality.

There is no other walkable neighborhood, though Homeland is nice, it has little retail and same issues with schools.

Baltimore parent here who just visited RPEMS and got stats straight from the principal about bussing as of early 2017.

Current out of bounds rate is about 10% for elementary school, about 25% for middle.

As for parents, I'd say it's about half and half public and private, judging from the about 20-30 families I can think of in my neighborhood, child's preschool and colleagues and other friends.

The $130 million deficit is true.

Crime has increased, but it is not significantly different from NW. The murder and crime rate is up in Baltimore as a whole, but it does not appear to be in Roland Park. It is the case that your car may get rifled through if you leave it unlocked and there are breakins, but the rates are comparable for those I've observed in other major cities, and I've lived in at least 4 over the last 10 years. I grew up in DC, but am basing my impressions on friends who live their now as the city is immeasurably richer and safer in NW for example than when I was younger.

Not a verdict either way, but get your facts straight before you spout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your crime info, actually all your info, is outdated, there has been an uptick over the past five years, even in Roland Park. Perhaps you are unaware that Baltimore is on track this year for one of the worst murder rates in its storied history. Yes, it is mostly mugging, some at gun point, and property crimes in rp, but it is grossly understating the issue to compare to nw D.C..

Most people in rp continue to use privates, not rp elementary. Sounds like you don't know many families With young kids in Baltimore. For the record, my kids go to the rp privates currently and we have lived in Baltimore for past 10 years.

Rp elementary has far more neighborhood kids than adecade ago, but half the school is bussed in from other neighborhoods, The farms rate reflects that.


The $130 million shortfall in the school budget is a huge issue.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Roland Park and my parents still live there (residents of the last 40 years), along with many friends.

Crime in Roland Park is comparable to NW DC. The occasional house break-in, the occasional car break-in, the occasional bicycle theft. FYI my parents' house has never been broken into nor cars tampered with, although we did have bicycles stolen once - 25 years ago. The murder was tragic and remains unsolved and the thinking is it was someone who knew the victim well. It's also the only murder I remember happening in Roland Park in my lifetime. NW DC and Georgetown have had murders in the not too distant past too.

You are right that RPEMS is becoming overcrowded due to its popularity. Just about everyone wants to get into the school, a big change from my childhood when everyone was avoiding it. But as a reference, my mother attended RPEMS for elementary school (she grew up in Homeland) and in the 1950s RPEMS also had 30-35 students to a class and was regarded as one of the best schools in the entire Baltimore metro area. My father's affluent Pennsylvania suburb's elementary school also had around 35 students per class and this was an idyllic suburb. While I personally wouldn't be wild about 30 kids to a class for my kid, people seem to cope with the popularity of RPEMS.

The housing market in North Baltimore is tight with little inventory. 650k can get you a house in good shape in Homeland / Orchards zoned for RPEMS, when one does come onto the market. Within RP it's more complicated to come up with the typical prices due to the wide range of housing, but there are few shabby properties to begin with. And, of course, people's tastes and expectations vary greatly. DC area people tend to consider a house to need work if it doesn't have the latest fancy kitchen, even if the house is structurally sound and needs minimal cosmetic improvements. Baltimore people are more pragmatic and less demanding. Only the OP knows what she expects from her budget.

As for being walkable, RP is similar to NW DC without the metro. Best to think of it as partially walkable with a limited range of amenities that you can walk to, but it is possible to organize your life around them. That's what my parents do. They walk to Eddies, the library, post office, a handful of eateries, and that's what they're happy with. I even had childhood friends whose parents took the bus to work downtown. The most walkable areas are going to be the waterfront neighborhoods, particularly Canton/Federal Hill/Fells Point.

OP, families with kids in Baltimore love living in Baltimore. It'll probably shock many DC people but all my friends and siblings in Baltimore say the same thing: it's a great place to raise a family, whether they're in the city or the suburbs. Have you also looked at Mount Washington (zoned for Mount Washington Elementary?). I've heard good things about several charter programs catering to families in the Canton and Federal Hill area.

Anonymous wrote:Here is the reality:

$650,000 in RP will be partially but not fully renovated, taxes will be approximately $13,000.

Your car will be broken into on a fairly regular basis if you leave unlocked, bikes stolen, etc . . . Only one murder in RP last year, but a number of muggings

RP elementary is overcrowded, 30 kids minimum in a class. You will never get lucky with a small class, kids are bussed in if there is any room, and the city has a $130 million shortfall in the school budget that the governor apparently cares nothing about.

Few people uses the public middle or high school, even in RP. Private school or at least parochial school is probably a given if you care about school quality.

There is no other walkable neighborhood, though Homeland is nice, it has little retail and same issues with schools.

Baltimore parent here who just visited RPEMS and got stats straight from the principal about bussing as of early 2017.

Current out of bounds rate is about 10% for elementary school, about 25% for middle.

As for parents, I'd say it's about half and half public and private, judging from the about 20-30 families I can think of in my neighborhood, child's preschool and colleagues and other friends.

The $130 million deficit is true.

Crime has increased, but it is not significantly different from NW. The murder and crime rate is up in Baltimore as a whole, but it does not appear to be in Roland Park. It is the case that your car may get rifled through if you leave it unlocked and there are breakins, but the rates are comparable for those I've observed in other major cities, and I've lived in at least 4 over the last 10 years. I grew up in DC, but am basing my impressions on friends who live their now as the city is immeasurably richer and safer in NW for example than when I was younger.

Not a verdict either way, but get your facts straight before you spout.

Seems like the facts are in agreement except for the out of bounds numbers.

I've lived in Philadelphia, DC, Boston, and Los Angeles -- in the city on every occasion. My personal opinion is that Roland park has much more petty crimes than similar neighborhoods I lived in other cities -- although Philadelphia was probably the closest.

The difference is that RP feels suburban but has the safety of a city neighborhood, and is in a not particularly safe city. It is mostly burglary, but there are far too many muggings for my liking, with an occasional murder or carjacking thrown in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gritty wasn't meant as a physical description.

It means that you can't leave a door unlocked or a car window down, a bike out in the front yard, go safely to the atm at night, and are often subjected to police helicopters overhead due to proximity of "bad" neighborhoods.

There are recent incidents of old ladies being mugged at gunpoint outside petit Louis restaurant, and a year or two ago, multiple muggings of joggers mugged, also at gunpoint


Aesthetically. Not gritty but that wasn't what I meant.

I think you mean "sketchy" or something like that, not gritty.

[Anonymous]

Someone really should sit down and do a crime stat comparison between Roland Park and Cleveland Park and Chestnut Hill and Brookline and Hancock Park.

I've spent enough time on internet forums to know that when it comes to crime stats and people start posting about anecdotal experience or instincts, it distorts the reality on the ground. Crime happens everywhere. All affluent areas suffer from petty theft and even periodic muggings. And the periodic murder, tragically, even if it is more of a once a generation thing. The truth is that at the end of the day, genuinely well-off people would not be paying high prices to live in a crime-ridden ghetto. Roland Park residents aren't going to be paying high prices and high taxes just to suffer from crime all the time.

If someone is genuinely concerned about crime in Roland Park, probably the best thing is to read the archives of the neighborhood's civil league meetings and see what's being reported and discussed. Like most educated, affluent neighborhoods, Roland Park residents are very proactive.