I think it's foolish for women to live and have children with men who won't marry them

[Anonymous]

OP, I agree, it is foolish.

1+.

The foolishness is due to the specific facts of this situation though, not any idea that every couple has to get married. But PPs seem to be overlooking that here, OP's friend (1) wants to get married, (2) has expressed this to her partner, (3) has a kid, and (4) does not work. Does not sound like the safest bet lifestyle-wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that you only think women are foolish?? What about the men? Please word things differently.

I think women have much more to lose in these situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren't worried about her, you just want to feel smugly superior to her for your different choices. Don't you have anything better to do than ask strangers to judge your friend first thing in the morning?

You took the words right out of my mouth

+100 The trolling headline gives it away.

[Anonymous]

I have a friend like this. He won't marry her. He is pretty wealthy and his first wife got a lot of money from the divorce. They have 2 kids together and by all accounts live like a regular family.

He gave her a 3 carat "commitment" ring and she calls him her husband, but yeah, she has explained to me that he has no intention to legally marry her ever.

I think it was foolish of her to agree to this arrangement. She, at least, went back to work 2 years ago. I was afraid for a long time that he was going to dump her when the children were babies and she stayed at home with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP, I agree, it is foolish.

1+.

The foolishness is due to the specific facts of this situation though, not any idea that every couple has to get married. But PPs seem to be overlooking that here, OP's friend (1) wants to get married, (2) has expressed this to her partner, (3) has a kid, and (4) does not work. Does not sound like the safest bet lifestyle-wise.

she can't force him to marry her, but she can get a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend like this. He won't marry her. He is pretty wealthy and his first wife got a lot of money from the divorce. They have 2 kids together and by all accounts live like a regular family.

He gave her a 3 carat "commitment" ring and she calls him her husband, but yeah, she has explained to me that he has no intention to legally marry her ever.

I think it was foolish of her to agree to this arrangement. She, at least, went back to work 2 years ago. I was afraid for a long time that he was going to dump her when the children were babies and she stayed at home with them.

He sounds like an immature jerk

[Anonymous]

I'm one of these "foolish" women, except I'm the one who doesn't want to get married. A wedding sounds like a nightmare to me, and divorce is expensive. We own a house together, have a child together, have been together for nearly a decade, his mother lives with us -- the only thing we don't have is a legal piece of paper. I'm not sure we need one. We might do a courthouse wedding one of these days but maybe we won't. It just feels unnecessary. I have a career and can provide (more meagerly, admittedly) for myself and our child, and I am the sole beneficiary of his life insurance as he is for mine. He would pay child support if we split. So we have those bases covered.

I find it highly judgmental and obnoxious when the women and men on this board are so condescending to those who choose not to marry their long-term partners. Glass houses, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of these "foolish" women, except I'm the one who doesn't want to get married. A wedding sounds like a nightmare to me, and divorce is expensive. We own a house together, have a child together, have been together for nearly a decade, his mother lives with us -- the only thing we don't have is a legal piece of paper. I'm not sure we need one. We might do a courthouse wedding one of these days but maybe we won't. It just feels unnecessary. I have a career and can provide (more meagerly, admittedly) for myself and our child, and I am the sole beneficiary of his life insurance as he is for mine. He would pay child support if we split. So we have those bases covered.

I find it highly judgmental and obnoxious when the women and men on this board are so condescending to those who choose not to marry their long-term partners. Glass houses, people.

I'm in the same position as you. For me the difference has always been that if either of us felt strongly about getting married, we would do it. In my relationship, neither one of us cares about it so we don't. It sounds like in the OPs friends relationship, she wants to get married but he doesn't. That's different than your (and my) scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of these "foolish" women, except I'm the one who doesn't want to get married. A wedding sounds like a nightmare to me, and divorce is expensive. We own a house together, have a child together, have been together for nearly a decade, his mother lives with us -- the only thing we don't have is a legal piece of paper. I'm not sure we need one. We might do a courthouse wedding one of these days but maybe we won't. It just feels unnecessary. I have a career and can provide (more meagerly, admittedly) for myself and our child, and I am the sole beneficiary of his life insurance as he is for mine. He would pay child support if we split. So we have those bases covered.

I find it highly judgmental and obnoxious when the women and men on this board are so condescending to those who choose not to marry their long-term partners. Glass houses, people.

OP here, and you're right. In your situation it sounds like you both contribute more or less equally and have decided to not marry mutually. I'm concerned with situations in which the women do want to marry, the men don't, and the women are in a vulnerable/dependent position.

[Anonymous]

Marriage is legal protection for men, women, and kids. It has little to do with superior choices or judgement of lifestyle.

Live however you choose, but I had friend that was a live in "wife" that got tossed aside after years of a relationship that didn't include marriage.

She regrets it bc she had no legal standing and trusted her boyfriend. It didn't work out for her at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of these "foolish" women, except I'm the one who doesn't want to get married. A wedding sounds like a nightmare to me, and divorce is expensive. We own a house together, have a child together, have been together for nearly a decade, his mother lives with us -- the only thing we don't have is a legal piece of paper. I'm not sure we need one. We might do a courthouse wedding one of these days but maybe we won't. It just feels unnecessary. I have a career and can provide (more meagerly, admittedly) for myself and our child, and I am the sole beneficiary of his life insurance as he is for mine. He would pay child support if we split. So we have those bases covered.

I find it highly judgmental and obnoxious when the women and men on this board are so condescending to those who choose not to marry their long-term partners. Glass houses, people.

I'm in the same position as you. For me the difference has always been that if either of us felt strongly about getting married, we would do it. In my relationship, neither one of us cares about it so we don't. It sounds like in the OPs friends relationship, she wants to get married but he doesn't. That's different than your (and my) scenario.

NP here. The bold is the key in OP's account. OP, your friend is "wistfully" (your term) talking about "when" they get married (not if, but when). She's hanging onto a fantasy that marriage is where this will end up. If she were like the PPs and OK with things as they now stand, that would be fine, but she's not OK with it and it sounds as if she lives in expectation of something that isn't going to happen. Unless you, as her friend, are close enough to be very frank and tell her (next time she wistfully mentions "when we get married") that you hope she isn't spending her mental energy on that fantasy....Unless you do that, just be her friend but whenever she brings up the topic, change the subject. Her foolishness isn't in not being married; it's in believing that she will change her partner "someday" and make him do what he won't.

I hope she (like the first PP here) owns the house with her partner. I hope she also has money that's solely in her own name and other protections. She may view those things as negative because they would mean she anticipates a future where they might not be together. But if he dies--what protections does she have regarding life insurance, a roof over her and her child's head, any inheritance? If their child is young and they haven't rewritten their wills or adjusted life insurance so she gets his -- they're both foolish.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, OP. And to say the men are foolish, too, is not understanding human nature. The men in these situations are having their cake and eating it, too. Doesn't matter that it's 2017, men and women are wired differently.

[Anonymous]

You aren't wrong to be concerned. I know someone who's parents had this arrangement and he met a new younger woman and left his "wifey" (who also didn't work) in the dust. They had been together over 30 years or so and he left her with literally nothing. She's struggling now financially and the children are very angry with their father. It's messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You aren't wrong to be concerned. I know someone who's parents had this arrangement and he met a new younger woman and left his "wifey" (who also didn't work) in the dust. They had been together over 30 years or so and he left her with literally nothing. She's struggling now financially and the children are very angry with their father. It's messed up.

That's exactly what occurred with my poor friend. She spent her life with this man, caring for him, loving him...

She has Bell's Palsy and now unable to work as much as she needs to support herself. She is so sad and lost.

Protect yourself and kids.

[Anonymous]

I think it's foolish for women to judge what other women do.