My friend is a terrible mom

[Anonymous]

My 11 year old folds all the laundry OP you do not seem like a very good friend maybe your friend is better off without you? You are like the child free friend with lots of free and judge advice

[Anonymous]

I agree with pp who talked about toddler and older children adoption having seen it up close and done a lot of research :
In foreign countries those homeless children are trained from a young age to go into the following industries -- maids and servants for the wealthy, construction, the sex industry, the hotel tourist industry they start them young like age 5 as "little helpers" and as soon as they can they put them to work that means that the ones you would like to adopt are never available (always exceptions thar prove the rule) they offer the ones with lots of problems to the American adoption market as they can easily get money from desperate US parents pretty scammy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old folds all the laundry OP you do not seem like a very good friend maybe your friend is better off without you? You are like the child free friend with lots of free and judge advice

WTF does laundry have to do with this?

[Anonymous]

Birth or adoption this woman would be a lousy mother. She has her own issues and never should have been approved to adopt. Often kids are labeled with bad parents and the real issue as you have said is the parent not kids. Do her kids a favor and help them. Her adoption was selfish not selfless.

[Anonymous]

She sounds like a classic narcissistic/BPD mom. OP, curious to know if your relationship with her has always been smooth? I am guessing that you have always given her a ton of positive feedback about how brilliant etc she is. I bet $1 million that if you said anything critical to her about the 18 year old and homeless shelters, that you'd quickly become the demon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a dear friend for many years. This person is actually more than a friend because she is older than me and she was my mentor when I was a teenager. She is talented at her craft (concealing details for anonymity), she taught me the ropes when I was young, really took me under her wing, and was there for me when I was having a very difficult time with my own mother.

So when she chose to adopt two toddlers 15+ years ago, I thought she'd be an amazing mom. She had always been so compassionate and so loving with me.

But when the kids arrived, it wasn't long before she deeply resented being a mother. She started demonizing one of the kids immediately, complaining about the inherent evilness of this one kid and the amazing perfection of the other. Classic "splitting" type behavior. Then, over the years, the demon - angel attribution would reverse, and the previous demon would become the new angel.

My friend has her own issues from childhood, having been abandoned by her mother. I think having actual real live kids of her own to take care of instead of just a grateful part-time mentee (me), really brought those buried issues to the surface.

In any case, two days ago it was the younger child's 18th birthday. She had been demonizing this one for the past few years, and she sent him to live with his friend's family in Florida a few months back, paying the financially needy mom a monthly fee to keep him. He recently asked to come home, and since he just turned 18, she bought him a bus ticket and gave him a list of homeless shelters. She will not let him back in the house.

Honestly at this point I think it is best for him not to be around her, and I haven't encouraged her to feel guilty about her behavior. She has shown she is unwilling, unable, and uninterested in being a true mother to either of these kids. They are better off moving on from her.

But since i have my own feelings of gratitude towards her, I don't know how to proceed here. She is scheduled to visit me (we live in different parts of the country) in February. I am not currently looking forward to the visit at all.

Lastly, I want to add that I am aware of the issues that arise (RAD etc.) with some adopted children. I've spent a lot of time with these kids over the years, and while they are not perfect, they are good kids. They are kind-hearted, smart kids. I truly believe my friend is the problem here, not them.

If this was really true, and you really did understand the nature of RAD, you would know that the kids are very smart and manipulative and that one of the features of RAD is have a very charming personality towards strangers. Kind-hearted isn't necessarily a term I would use for a child with RAD. Maybe "well meaning at times" might be a better choice.

Until you have really lived the situation, you have no idea what her home life may have been like with this child. Sure, her own response was poor but I get it. It's easy for a parent, especially a single parent, to be worn down by the behaviors. It can be very hard to find caregivers or even respite care for children with challenging behaviors as well.

Even if a child does not have a RAD diagnosis, it's possible they have other diagnosises. FASD comes to mind and is a very difficult thing to deal with. It's not possible to know the extent of something like that until a child is older.

It's very possible the mom sought out counseling and help along the way. Many times parents are embarrassed to admit there are problems or even go into the type of the help they are getting so don't think just because she hasn't told you or denied it, that it wasn't really happening.

In the end, it really can be in the best interest of the child to move to another home. Sometimes that is what is truly needed for the child to heal and move on with their life in the right direction.

NP

Based on the following, who is responsible for RAD?

Reactive attachment disorder is a rare but serious condition in which an infant or young child doesn't establish healthy attachments with parents or caregivers. Reactive attachment disorder may develop if the child's basic needs for comfort, affection and nurturing aren't met and loving, caring, stable attachments with others are not established.

With treatment, children with reactive attachment disorder may develop more stable and healthy relationships with caregivers and others. Treatments for reactive attachment disorder include positive child and caregiver interactions, a stable, nurturing environment, psychological counseling, and parent or caregiver education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's heartbreaking Op. I personally could not be friends with such a person. Homeless shelters, really!?

This. Your friend is an awful, awful person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a dear friend for many years. This person is actually more than a friend because she is older than me and she was my mentor when I was a teenager. She is talented at her craft (concealing details for anonymity), she taught me the ropes when I was young, really took me under her wing, and was there for me when I was having a very difficult time with my own mother.

So when she chose to adopt two toddlers 15+ years ago, I thought she'd be an amazing mom. She had always been so compassionate and so loving with me.

But when the kids arrived, it wasn't long before she deeply resented being a mother. She started demonizing one of the kids immediately, complaining about the inherent evilness of this one kid and the amazing perfection of the other. Classic "splitting" type behavior. Then, over the years, the demon - angel attribution would reverse, and the previous demon would become the new angel.

My friend has her own issues from childhood, having been abandoned by her mother. I think having actual real live kids of her own to take care of instead of just a grateful part-time mentee (me), really brought those buried issues to the surface.

In any case, two days ago it was the younger child's 18th birthday. She had been demonizing this one for the past few years, and she sent him to live with his friend's family in Florida a few months back, paying the financially needy mom a monthly fee to keep him. He recently asked to come home, and since he just turned 18, she bought him a bus ticket and gave him a list of homeless shelters. She will not let him back in the house.

Honestly at this point I think it is best for him not to be around her, and I haven't encouraged her to feel guilty about her behavior. She has shown she is unwilling, unable, and uninterested in being a true mother to either of these kids. They are better off moving on from her.

But since i have my own feelings of gratitude towards her, I don't know how to proceed here. She is scheduled to visit me (we live in different parts of the country) in February. I am not currently looking forward to the visit at all.

Lastly, I want to add that I am aware of the issues that arise (RAD etc.) with some adopted children. I've spent a lot of time with these kids over the years, and while they are not perfect, they are good kids. They are kind-hearted, smart kids. I truly believe my friend is the problem here, not them.

If this was really true, and you really did understand the nature of RAD, you would know that the kids are very smart and manipulative and that one of the features of RAD is have a very charming personality towards strangers. Kind-hearted isn't necessarily a term I would use for a child with RAD. Maybe "well meaning at times" might be a better choice.

Until you have really lived the situation, you have no idea what her home life may have been like with this child. Sure, her own response was poor but I get it. It's easy for a parent, especially a single parent, to be worn down by the behaviors. It can be very hard to find caregivers or even respite care for children with challenging behaviors as well.

Even if a child does not have a RAD diagnosis, it's possible they have other diagnosises. FASD comes to mind and is a very difficult thing to deal with. It's not possible to know the extent of something like that until a child is older.

It's very possible the mom sought out counseling and help along the way. Many times parents are embarrassed to admit there are problems or even go into the type of the help they are getting so don't think just because she hasn't told you or denied it, that it wasn't really happening.

In the end, it really can be in the best interest of the child to move to another home. Sometimes that is what is truly needed for the child to heal and move on with their life in the right direction.

NP

Based on the following, who is responsible for RAD?

Reactive attachment disorder is a rare but serious condition in which an infant or young child doesn't establish healthy attachments with parents or caregivers. Reactive attachment disorder may develop if the child's basic needs for comfort, affection and nurturing aren't met and loving, caring, stable attachments with others are not established.

With treatment, children with reactive attachment disorder may develop more stable and healthy relationships with caregivers and others. Treatments for reactive attachment disorder include positive child and caregiver interactions, a stable, nurturing environment, psychological counseling, and parent or caregiver education.

The person responsible is the primary caregiver(s) of the child from birth. A child has to form an attachment with a primary caregiver. Reasons why this doesn't happen can include the biological parents having serious mental health issues, addictions, long periods of separation from the primary caregiver (if a child has to be hospitalized and the primary caregiver has limited contact), adoption/foster care - if there are too many primary caregivers in a very short period of time such as birth mother, foster mother than adoptive mother
in a span of a few months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a dear friend for many years. This person is actually more than a friend because she is older than me and she was my mentor when I was a teenager. She is talented at her craft (concealing details for anonymity), she taught me the ropes when I was young, really took me under her wing, and was there for me when I was having a very difficult time with my own mother.

So when she chose to adopt two toddlers 15+ years ago, I thought she'd be an amazing mom. She had always been so compassionate and so loving with me.

But when the kids arrived, it wasn't long before she deeply resented being a mother. She started demonizing one of the kids immediately, complaining about the inherent evilness of this one kid and the amazing perfection of the other. Classic "splitting" type behavior. Then, over the years, the demon - angel attribution would reverse, and the previous demon would become the new angel.

My friend has her own issues from childhood, having been abandoned by her mother. I think having actual real live kids of her own to take care of instead of just a grateful part-time mentee (me), really brought those buried issues to the surface.

In any case, two days ago it was the younger child's 18th birthday. She had been demonizing this one for the past few years, and she sent him to live with his friend's family in Florida a few months back, paying the financially needy mom a monthly fee to keep him. He recently asked to come home, and since he just turned 18, she bought him a bus ticket and gave him a list of homeless shelters. She will not let him back in the house.

Honestly at this point I think it is best for him not to be around her, and I haven't encouraged her to feel guilty about her behavior. She has shown she is unwilling, unable, and uninterested in being a true mother to either of these kids. They are better off moving on from her.

But since i have my own feelings of gratitude towards her, I don't know how to proceed here. She is scheduled to visit me (we live in different parts of the country) in February. I am not currently looking forward to the visit at all.

Lastly, I want to add that I am aware of the issues that arise (RAD etc.) with some adopted children. I've spent a lot of time with these kids over the years, and while they are not perfect, they are good kids. They are kind-hearted, smart kids. I truly believe my friend is the problem here, not them.

If this was really true, and you really did understand the nature of RAD, you would know that the kids are very smart and manipulative and that one of the features of RAD is have a very charming personality towards strangers. Kind-hearted isn't necessarily a term I would use for a child with RAD. Maybe "well meaning at times" might be a better choice.

Until you have really lived the situation, you have no idea what her home life may have been like with this child. Sure, her own response was poor but I get it. It's easy for a parent, especially a single parent, to be worn down by the behaviors. It can be very hard to find caregivers or even respite care for children with challenging behaviors as well.

Even if a child does not have a RAD diagnosis, it's possible they have other diagnosises. FASD comes to mind and is a very difficult thing to deal with. It's not possible to know the extent of something like that until a child is older.

It's very possible the mom sought out counseling and help along the way. Many times parents are embarrassed to admit there are problems or even go into the type of the help they are getting so don't think just because she hasn't told you or denied it, that it wasn't really happening.

In the end, it really can be in the best interest of the child to move to another home. Sometimes that is what is truly needed for the child to heal and move on with their life in the right direction.

OP here. I agree with the bolded, but I maintain my view, which is based on a lot of exposure over the years to this family.

She would tell you that the times she called the cops, sent them to institutions, involved social services, etc. were all due to their RAD issues but I don't see any evidence of intolerable behavior from the kids. They were not stellar students but did not get into trouble at school, for example. The other child started to thrive when she went to live with a different family member. The older child was the original demon, and the younger child was the original angel. She only started demonizing the younger child after the older child moved out of the house at 14 an in with another relative.

Yes, that happens. RAD is the inability to form a loving attachment with a caregiver. The pressure and expectations of forming these attachments is very emotionally difficult and sometimes impossible for kids with RAD. This pressure is not present with teachers and parent's friends. They don't need to form an emotional bond with those people so they might be able to more easily control their behavior around them.

Social services interventions, police intervention and mental health institution stays don't happen for no reason. You have to understand when these things happen it's very serious.

One of the reasons that many children with RAD are not getting the help they so desperately need is because people like you say their kids seem perfectly fine and tell the parents constantly they must be the problem and if only they changed everything else would be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a dear friend for many years. This person is actually more than a friend because she is older than me and she was my mentor when I was a teenager. She is talented at her craft (concealing details for anonymity), she taught me the ropes when I was young, really took me under her wing, and was there for me when I was having a very difficult time with my own mother.

So when she chose to adopt two toddlers 15+ years ago, I thought she'd be an amazing mom. She had always been so compassionate and so loving with me.

But when the kids arrived, it wasn't long before she deeply resented being a mother. She started demonizing one of the kids immediately, complaining about the inherent evilness of this one kid and the amazing perfection of the other. Classic "splitting" type behavior. Then, over the years, the demon - angel attribution would reverse, and the previous demon would become the new angel.

My friend has her own issues from childhood, having been abandoned by her mother. I think having actual real live kids of her own to take care of instead of just a grateful part-time mentee (me), really brought those buried issues to the surface.

In any case, two days ago it was the younger child's 18th birthday. She had been demonizing this one for the past few years, and she sent him to live with his friend's family in Florida a few months back, paying the financially needy mom a monthly fee to keep him. He recently asked to come home, and since he just turned 18, she bought him a bus ticket and gave him a list of homeless shelters. She will not let him back in the house.

Honestly at this point I think it is best for him not to be around her, and I haven't encouraged her to feel guilty about her behavior. She has shown she is unwilling, unable, and uninterested in being a true mother to either of these kids. They are better off moving on from her.

But since i have my own feelings of gratitude towards her, I don't know how to proceed here. She is scheduled to visit me (we live in different parts of the country) in February. I am not currently looking forward to the visit at all.

Lastly, I want to add that I am aware of the issues that arise (RAD etc.) with some adopted children. I've spent a lot of time with these kids over the years, and while they are not perfect, they are good kids. They are kind-hearted, smart kids. I truly believe my friend is the problem here, not them.

If this was really true, and you really did understand the nature of RAD, you would know that the kids are very smart and manipulative and that one of the features of RAD is have a very charming personality towards strangers. Kind-hearted isn't necessarily a term I would use for a child with RAD. Maybe "well meaning at times" might be a better choice.

Until you have really lived the situation, you have no idea what her home life may have been like with this child. Sure, her own response was poor but I get it. It's easy for a parent, especially a single parent, to be worn down by the behaviors. It can be very hard to find caregivers or even respite care for children with challenging behaviors as well.

Even if a child does not have a RAD diagnosis, it's possible they have other diagnosises. FASD comes to mind and is a very difficult thing to deal with. It's not possible to know the extent of something like that until a child is older.

It's very possible the mom sought out counseling and help along the way. Many times parents are embarrassed to admit there are problems or even go into the type of the help they are getting so don't think just because she hasn't told you or denied it, that it wasn't really happening.

In the end, it really can be in the best interest of the child to move to another home. Sometimes that is what is truly needed for the child to heal and move on with their life in the right direction.

OP here. I agree with the bolded, but I maintain my view, which is based on a lot of exposure over the years to this family.

She would tell you that the times she called the cops, sent them to institutions, involved social services, etc. were all due to their RAD issues but I don't see any evidence of intolerable behavior from the kids. They were not stellar students but did not get into trouble at school, for example. The other child started to thrive when she went to live with a different family member. The older child was the original demon, and the younger child was the original angel. She only started demonizing the younger child after the older child moved out of the house at 14 an in with another relative.

Yes, that happens. RAD is the inability to form a loving attachment with a caregiver. The pressure and expectations of forming these attachments is very emotionally difficult and sometimes impossible for kids with RAD. This pressure is not present with teachers and parent's friends. They don't need to form an emotional bond with those people so they might be able to more easily control their behavior around them.

Social services interventions, police intervention and mental health institution stays don't happen for no reason. You have to understand when these things happen it's very serious.

One of the reasons that many children with RAD are not getting the help they so desperately need is because people like you say their kids seem perfectly fine and tell the parents constantly they must be the problem and if only they changed everything else would be better.

This is OP again. I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong. I know this because my own biological mother shopped me around to different institutions and also called the police on me many times for arguments in the home. She is the child of an alcoholic and very damaged herself. This is one of the reasons I bonded with my friend - she was there for me when my own mother was behaving like the self-centered, broken person that she is. This is also a reason that it's been very difficult for me to watch my friend go down this path with her kids. I think she actually got some of these cues from my mom! In any case, I am a functioning adult, do not have RAD, never had RAD, and have never received a mental health diagnosis other than depression and anxiety as an adult. Yet my damaged mom was able to court sympathy and get validation regarding her parenting failures very easily by getting social services involved, police intervention, and mental health institutions. So again, you are wrong.

I think having kids brings up unresolved issues for some people. I think both my own mom and my friend had a buried feeling of "My parents never did anything for me, why should i do anything for you?" that came to the surface when they had kids. I could be wrong, but after reflecting on this for some time that is the best explanation I can come up with.

[Anonymous]

I'd be torn OP--I'd not want to judge my friend too harshly, but what is happening with her children is appalling. I have a friend, a child of an alcoholic, who divorced her first husband (for good cause) and married a wonderful man. But her son from that marriage, who rarely saw his bio Dad (father didn't make himself available) developed what I considered a pretty minor drug problem--caught with marijuana in early high school.

She came down like a sledge hammer after being imbued with a tough love philosophy. She shipped him off to a wilderness camp, which involved a stranger taking him from his bed in the dead of night and whisking him off. He never quite recovered from this and one thing led to another and he ended up addicted to heroin. More tough love, kicking him out of the house on to the street, etc. and finally death by suicide. She still thinks she did everything possible right. Your friend may also think the same thing.

I really disagree with the steps she took and before anyone jumps on me I had my own child addicted to heroin but handled it completely differently and DC is now a fully sober and contributing member of society (have not disclosed to anyone I know). I will say that before the addiction I had all sorts of problems with my child and got lots and lots of advice from friends and families about going down the tough love approach, including giving the child up to foster care. Tough love is rarely successful, but many still think it is what works (as evidenced by much advice on DCUM).

[Anonymous]

She does in fact sound like a terrible mother.

I should know, I am also adopted & my own mother was always trying to pawn me off on other people.
And when I turned 18, then she totally abandoned me + cut me off from ever living @home ever again.

Too bad she didn't have a friend like you to witness what a horrid parent she was.
Also, she treated other kids so much differently than she did me. Everyone thought she was the best!

Except me.

I would discuss w/your friend your feelings about how she raised her kids.
(I wish someone had spoken to my mother.)

Voice your concerns & if she gets angry or offended by what you have to say, then so be it.

That is just a chance you will have to take.

Those kids need an advocate right now.

Or if confrontation is not your thing, then feel free to ghost her.

In all honesty, I cannot stand to socialize w/anyone who treats their children in the manner you described.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She does in fact sound like a terrible mother.

I should know, I am also adopted & my own mother was always trying to pawn me off on other people.
And when I turned 18, then she totally abandoned me + cut me off from ever living @home ever again.

Too bad she didn't have a friend like you to witness what a horrid parent she was.
Also, she treated other kids so much differently than she did me. Everyone thought she was the best!

Except me.

I would discuss w/your friend your feelings about how she raised her kids.
(I wish someone had spoken to my mother.)

Voice your concerns & if she gets angry or offended by what you have to say, then so be it.

That is just a chance you will have to take.

Those kids need an advocate right now.

Or if confrontation is not your thing, then feel free to ghost her.

In all honesty, I cannot stand to socialize w/anyone who treats their children in the manner you described.

Hi, PP. OP here. I am so sorry about what happened to you, but thank you so much for your reply. Maybe you can help me figure out how to best be available to these kids now.

Do you think, as I suspect, that it's actually best that these kids stay away from her now that they are in fact 18? The older child (remember, she was able to move in with a loving relative at around 14) is now self-supporting at 20 years old. She has about an 80 IQ, so she won't go to college. But she works 2 jobs happily and pays for her own apartment. I am so happy to see her thriving. The boy, the younger one, is the one who needs help right now. He is quite a bit sharper than his sister (I think because he didn't endure the periods of malnutrition pre-adoption that his sister did). He went to a technical high-school studying IT, and I think he would be a great candidate for community college before transferring into a 4 year college after the first 2 years. I want to see him heal and move on with his life.

I guess my big question is, these kids still feel some kind of bond with their adopted mom, don't they? Completely moving on isn't realistic, is it? They will still have issues around her since she did raise them. :/

At this point I think I am going to reach out to the younger one, and try to offer him some mentorship on his path into adulthood. I am not sure what talking with his mother would do? I kind of want her out of the picture because she has such a toxic dynamic with him. Do you think this would be helpful to him?

[Anonymous]

She's sounds like a "terrible mother", whatever that this --but that is not your relationship with her. She was a great mentor to you and a good friend. That doesn't sound like BPD or whatever mental illness DCUM currently thinks laymen can diagnose from a couple secondhand anecdotes. If she had BPD or another personality disorder, you'd have seen it in your and other's long-term non-parenting interactions with her. Do whatever feel comfortable to you. See her or don't see her. Host her or say no room at the end. Take in her 18 year old and retailers him or bite your tongue and wish him well. But don't think you'll get here the true story of what happened between her and her kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tell her you're not available and give her a list of hostels.

I couldn't host her or spend time me with someone like this. I'd do the opposite and invite the other kid in my house.

Same. I wouldn't be able to be friends with this woman. And I'd reach out to the 18 yr old to help him however I could. If ever there was a kid who could use the support of the military, it might be this kid. It'd give him a place to live, people to count on, people who'd consider him competent, he'd learn a skill, earn a little money, etc.