Relationship with Alcoholic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My fiance just started going to AA. I attended a meeting with him for the first time last night. (not his first meeting) I am an atheist. I kinda knew they had some sort of thing about a "higher power", but I did not know how pushy they were about God, and Christ and salvation. If he wants to start going to church, as he said, that's fine, but that is a non-starter for me. I will not go and that was made abundantly clear to him from before we were even dating that I have and will not have any part of organized religion. But I got a very Scientology "hostile person" vibe about me not going along with the church thing after the meeting when chatting with my fiance, his sponsor and his sponsor's wife.

Also, I know you don't want to kick a man while he's down, but they kept on telling him not to beat himself up over a relapse he recently had, where he crashed his car and could've killed himself or someone else...ummm, yea, I don't think that's something to just gloss over to protect his feelings?! And I'm not allowed to voice my feelings to him either of how his behaviors affect me when he is intoxicated, because he's so fragile and it's piling on?? So I just need to not say anything about anything so as to not make him feel bad about himself?

Is this what AA is about, or is this just a weird group and perhaps he should try somewhere else?

A final thing, he also says that I shouldn't drink. I agreed to not drink at home or when we are out together and not bring anything into the home. But he said never, not even when we aren't together, not for special occasions, vacations, weddings, girl trips, etc. Since he is sober, I need to be as well. When I said I don't think that sounds right, that I don't think alcoholics make everyone around them sober too, and maybe he should bring that up at one of his meetings, he said he would, but that it won't go over very well for me.

Any advice anyone has who themselves is a recovering alcoholic and knows how AA works would be helpful, or a spouse whose husband or wife attends meetings, please offer some input/help. I don't even know where to begin with this. He needs not to drink and AA seems to be the recommended way of doing that.

The bolded is what I would be concerned about, OP. Firstly, if your husband has decided that he is going to embrace religion in his life, that is fine. I know a lot of people have found it very helpful. In general, I'm not against interfaith marriages and am myself married to someone religious while not being religious, but your situation sounds like a recipe for disaster. If my DH wants to go to church, that is fine. If he wants to take DD, that is fine too. I'm not interested in going but don't have any beef with it as long as he's not treating people badly and justifying it with his faith. When my husband first stopped drinking, he asked that we could please not have alcohol in our house and asked me to not get drunk around him. I thought those were reasonable requests, and we didn't go to parties, bars, happy hours, etc. a lot that first year. It was good for me too, because we had been drinking heavily together and I didn't realize how unhealthy I was until I started getting healthier. But he had NO problem with me going out with friends, and as time went on, he was the designated driver for a number of things. This was about 4 years ago.

If your husband needs you to basically act as though you are also an alcoholic to be supportive of his recovery, to me, that is symptomatic of his addiction. He will at some point have to get to a point where he can be around alcohol and not drink it. Burying his head in the sober sand and pretending that you don't participate in champagne toasts or have cocktails with your girlfriends is not going to help him RECOVER. It probably won't even help him stop drinking.

Strongly agree. Some alcoholics feel the need to pathologize everyone else's drinking when they get sober, even if the people they are scrutinizing do not have problems with alcoholism or alcohol abuse. My mother's side of the family has a lot of drunks and it's a common refrain, uncle gets sober, gets god, then sees the devil in everyone else's behavior and badgers and belittles all of us for being a slave to the demon liquor. Sorry, Fred, but 2 beers at a family picnic does not equal alcoholic, you spending the last 40 years hammered does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

They do lots of different things in Europe. Google the Sinclair method.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

I think you need to read up on alcoholism, OP. Some people really CAN'T drink responsibly. It has to be all or nothing. They don't understand drinking just 1 beer. They don't even understand just drinking 4 beers (which is a lot, tbh). It's not about a lack of self control. It's a disease.

I agree that your fiance will have to learn how to be around alcohol socially at some point. Every restaurant that I've been to has offered me a wine list or a cocktail list. People have going away parties in bars. Weddings have champagne toasts. He doesn't have to drink at those events. For my husband (mentioned above as my lady wine night designated driver), his recovery has been more about teaching himself how to be at social events where there is alcohol and not drinking it. How to be okay in those situations without it. It was HARD. I suspect sometimes it is still hard. But he declines the drinks now. He just says, "No thanks, I'll have a club soda and lemon" or something similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

Ok, OP. You need to get to Al Anon, stat. I posted before and am married to an alcoholic. He will never have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. I haven't heard from him, but YOU sound like you haven't resolved yourself to understand that he can never. drink. again. Not at all. And the fact that you think it's "unrealistic" for someone your age to never drink again because you'll be at weddings and social events is an incredibly immature viewpoint. Plenty of younger adults don't drink. He will not be able to get sober if his partner is not supportive of his recovery. You absolutely should not stop drinking while away from him if you don't want to and you definitely shouldn't go to church if you don't want to, but stop figuring out how you can get your fiance to better suit HIS recovery to YOUR needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been in recovery in AA 25 plus years. Sounds like his sponsor is religious. Religion is not part of the program. Finding a power greater than yourself is, because we alcoholics don't have power over our desire to drink. We drink when we shouldn't and can't predict how much we'll drink.

Don't get married anytime soon. Go to 6 al-anon meetings, not all the same one. Ask in the al-anon meeting "Who is a good person for me to talk to? My fiancé is trying to get sober. ". Nothing wrong with therapy, either.

Your fiancé sounds very manipulative and controlling. Focus on what are YOUR needs, and are they being met?

FWIW I started going to church after many years and never mention it in meetings. (People are free to ask me and I'll tell them). I know people who are Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, Buddhists, Taoists, everything. AA encourages seeking with an open mind. " God of YOUR understanding."

My man tells me that AA is too disorganized to be religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

Ok, OP. You need to get to Al Anon, stat. I posted before and am married to an alcoholic. He will never have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. I haven't heard from him, but YOU sound like you haven't resolved yourself to understand that he can never. drink. again. Not at all. And the fact that you think it's "unrealistic" for someone your age to never drink again because you'll be at weddings and social events is an incredibly immature viewpoint. Plenty of younger adults don't drink. He will not be able to get sober if his partner is not supportive of his recovery. You absolutely should not stop drinking while away from him if you don't want to and you definitely shouldn't go to church if you don't want to, but stop figuring out how you can get your fiance to better suit HIS recovery to YOUR needs.

I don't think it's immature. I think it's realistic. Everyone drinks. Everywhere we go. And he said he cannot be around it. So he is going to have to completely isolate himself from all friend and family for the foreseeable future if he expects to go cold turkey and never drink again. I feel like the success rate of that will not be very high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

Ok, OP. You need to get to Al Anon, stat. I posted before and am married to an alcoholic. He will never have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. I haven't heard from him, but YOU sound like you haven't resolved yourself to understand that he can never. drink. again. Not at all. And the fact that you think it's "unrealistic" for someone your age to never drink again because you'll be at weddings and social events is an incredibly immature viewpoint. Plenty of younger adults don't drink. He will not be able to get sober if his partner is not supportive of his recovery. You absolutely should not stop drinking while away from him if you don't want to and you definitely shouldn't go to church if you don't want to, but stop figuring out how you can get your fiance to better suit HIS recovery to YOUR needs.

I don't think it's immature. I think it's realistic. Everyone drinks. Everywhere we go. And he said he cannot be around it. So he is going to have to completely isolate himself from all friend and family for the foreseeable future if he expects to go cold turkey and never drink again. I feel like the success rate of that will not be very high.

OP, you sound as if you are still in the bargaining phase of this. What is the alternative? He either has to learn to have one or two drinks, or he needs to quit cold turkey. You said he can't stop. People in recovery often find that they cannot be around former friends.

[Anonymous]

Your relationship is doomed for many reasons, and you should get out now. There was a recent thread where the topic included the fact that a majority of marriages fail due to the poor decision to ever get married in the first place by minimizing and overlooking known problems and believing things would work out. Little problems before marriage become the BIG PROBLEMS after marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You shouldn't be dating an alcoholic.

Well, I didn't start dating him while he was in AA. We've been together for years, are engaged, and his drinking escalated to the point of alcoholism. Am I supposed to dump him?

Yes. You're under no obligation to marry someone just because you're dating, you're engaged, or you're in love.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't sound like a good match to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All AA is like that. It is a crazy cult and it doesn't work. Ask Google about it.

+1 I predict this doesn't mix well with the atheist pov about reality - AA involves a LOT of magical thinking...kind of like alcoholism.

I will have to look into it more. What I've learned is he doesn't control how much he drinks. He doesn't currently have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. He has to drink 12.

The pragmatist in me thinks it's completely unrealistic for someone our age to never drink again, with the weddings and vacations and social events we are attending all the time. He will be surrounded by it on a regular basis. I think one should focus more energy on retraining yourself to learn how to drink responsibly. Isn't that what they do in Europe?

Ok, OP. You need to get to Al Anon, stat. I posted before and am married to an alcoholic. He will never have the self control to just stop drinking after 4 beers. I haven't heard from him, but YOU sound like you haven't resolved yourself to understand that he can never. drink. again. Not at all. And the fact that you think it's "unrealistic" for someone your age to never drink again because you'll be at weddings and social events is an incredibly immature viewpoint. Plenty of younger adults don't drink. He will not be able to get sober if his partner is not supportive of his recovery. You absolutely should not stop drinking while away from him if you don't want to and you definitely shouldn't go to church if you don't want to, but stop figuring out how you can get your fiance to better suit HIS recovery to YOUR needs.

I don't think it's immature. I think it's realistic. Everyone drinks. Everywhere we go. And he said he cannot be around it. So he is going to have to completely isolate himself from all friend and family for the foreseeable future if he expects to go cold turkey and never drink again. I feel like the success rate of that will not be very high.

Yes, he is. You're right. My husband just didn't go to parties for a while. He's almost five years sober and if he's somewhere and the drinking is getting to him, he leaves. He doesn't make me leave with him. He just says, hey you stay and have fun, i'll see you at home. The answer to that isn't, "well, you're going to have to suck it up and learn to drink reasonably like all us normal people." Jesus. For your fiance's sake, I hope you leave. you absolutely are not helping.

[Anonymous]

I'm sober for 4 years and for the first two years I skipped a lot of social functions and went to weddings but left before the receptions. Now I can go and stay all night (although I don't want to because once people get drunk it becomes very boring. Oh, the irony). Anyway your relationship in my opinion could use a break. Let him get some sobriety. If you want it to work, go to al anon and at the very least you'll find some people to talk to who are in the same boat you are. Best wishes.

[Anonymous]

I've been sober for just over five years as well. Your boyfriend's perspective will change a ton as the months pass by in ways he can't fully comprehend now.

I wouldn't blame a partner who decided to get out now, but if he sticks with sobriety things will get better and he will change--including his desire to never be around alcohol, which is understandable in the short term but not reasonable over the long haul.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to hear about this OP. I, like you, also dating a man whose alcoholism I got "clues" about as we were engaged, and then it was not until after we married that his alcoholism became apparent. I encourage you to do your homework. It is not easy being married to an alcoholic. It is a tough path. Go to 10 al anon meetings. You will hear a litany of sad spouses talking. I ended up divorced and did a bunch of therapy. Proceed with caution is all I am saying. Beware also that in the "shame spiral" someone spoke about earlier, you as the spouse may expect blame: "you know why I drink? look in the mirror!" is a typical explanation you may get from an alcoholic spouse. It really is tough situation you are in but follow your instincts and listen to what people are talking about at al anon.

The al anon meetings I went to were not at all religious. Try a few locations and find one that suits your needs.