Planned Parenthood scandal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a problem with the donation of fetal tissue for research, which is done with the full knowledge and consent of donors, nor with PP charging nominal fees to cover the expense of storing and transporting the tissue. And anyone who works as a surgeon, with cadavers, or in medical research would not be in the least bit shocked at the frankness with which people make reference to different parts of the body, even of the deceased. All surgery is pretty gruesome. It doesn't mean abortion care is not needed or that donating fetal tissue for research is bad.

Agree and well stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

Agreed. If you don't think there's an issue with abortion - then what is the issue with donating fetal tissue?

However, I have a problem with profit making on fetal tissue. Also, if Planned Parenthood doctors are changing practices so that when they perform abortions, they do it to maximize profit from fetal tissue rather than the mother's health, then that's a problem. And these are allegations all raised by the video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

Agreed. If you don't think there's an issue with abortion - then what is the issue with donating fetal tissue?

However, I have a problem with profit making on fetal tissue. Also, if Planned Parenthood doctors are changing practices so that when they perform abortions, they do it to maximize profit from fetal tissue rather than the mother's health, then that's a problem. And these are allegations all raised by the video.

You have a problem with a business acting like a .....business?

A business which helps MILLIONS of women? I'm all for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

Agreed. If you don't think there's an issue with abortion - then what is the issue with donating fetal tissue?

However, I have a problem with profit making on fetal tissue. Also, if Planned Parenthood doctors are changing practices so that when they perform abortions, they do it to maximize profit from fetal tissue rather than the mother's health, then that's a problem. And these are allegations all raised by the video.

NP, this sounds like a discussion. I didn't see the deleted thread, but I can fill in the blanks after reading the thread on the Feedback forum.

As for maximizing mother's health or fetal tissue, is that a real issue? The recent VA report found no instances of mother's health being affected by abortions, in 2 years.

[Anonymous]

I don't care what they do with the tissue as long as the women gave consent that Planned Parenthood could have the tissue (vs the woman wanting her tissue for burial or something).

[Anonymous]

It's on the political forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

Agreed. If you don't think there's an issue with abortion - then what is the issue with donating fetal tissue?

However, I have a problem with profit making on fetal tissue. Also, if Planned Parenthood doctors are changing practices so that when they perform abortions, they do it to maximize profit from fetal tissue rather than the mother's health, then that's a problem. And these are allegations all raised by the video.

NP, this sounds like a discussion. I didn't see the deleted thread, but I can fill in the blanks after reading the thread on the Feedback forum.

As for maximizing mother's health or fetal tissue, is that a real issue? The recent VA report found no instances of mother's health being affected by abortions, in 2 years.

I just saw this in a CNN article (link http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/health/planned-parenthood-undercover-video/)

Caplan was also concerned about another part of the video where Nucatola talks about doctors doing abortions where ultrasound is used to know where to grab the fetus with forceps.

"We've been very good at getting heart, lung, liver because we know that, I'm not going to crush that part," the doctor says.

Caplan told CNN's Elizabeth Cohen that altering procedures in order to get tissue in the best condition would be a "big no-no."

"In abortion the primary goal is to give the safest abortion possible," he said. "Your sole concern has to be the mother and her health."

He said there's a parallel in patient care: When someone is dying, doctors shouldn't change how they treat the patient in order to harvest good tissue for donation after death.

Doctors should treat the patient as they normally would, and then use whatever is available after death. If a provider is considering how to get the tissue that's in the best shape, "that's a huge conflict of interest. ... If you modify how someone dies, that's unethical."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

Agreed. If you don't think there's an issue with abortion - then what is the issue with donating fetal tissue?

However, I have a problem with profit making on fetal tissue. Also, if Planned Parenthood doctors are changing practices so that when they perform abortions, they do it to maximize profit from fetal tissue rather than the mother's health, then that's a problem. And these are allegations all raised by the video.

I think that's actually worth talking about, but I disagree with your premise. The sale price of $30-100 per specimen does not necessarily equate to "making a profit." There are collection, preservation and transportation costs associated with the donation. When someone donates household goods to a charity, someone still has to drive the truck over and load the goods into the truck. Someone still has to process those donations and determine where they are going to go. Someone still creates a list of what types of donations are needed, and who needs them, and when. I watched the video, and to me, it sounded like that is what is being discussed. Those things are being categorized as "making a profit on fetal tissue" and I do not believe that is accurate.

The doctor thought she was having a business meeting with a potential client, so she was describing the business practices associated with the relationship that she believed she was discussing. A business who wanted to begin this relationship would want to know about things like cost and the quality of the specimens they were purchasing. That people find these descriptions gruesome is understandable, but they are clinical descriptions of clinical procedures. I do not view what you're describing as changing practice in order to maximize profit at the expense of the mother's health. It sounds to me like when they know that the fetal materials are going to be preserved, they are careful not to damage them. If the patient does not want to donate the tissue and organs, it is less important where certain instruments are placed during the procedure and the placement does not necessarily damage the mother's health or compromise the procedure. And the bottom line is that the doctor would probably have spoken differently if she knew who she was actually talking to. We all tailor our speech to our audience. I don't speak to my child the same way I speak to my clients, even if I'm explaining what I do at work.

[Anonymous]

I don't have a problem with any of it. Another manufactured "scandal". Yawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

I'm curious at what point a fetal liver, for example, becomes a liver worthy of being classified as such/researched? You'd think that if an abortion is done early/legally, there should not be any "livers" laying around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485585.page

OP here. Thanks for this. It's disheartening to see that Jeff and others are blinded to the fact that this video is about the entire conversation of abortion, and when you discuss one specific aspect of it, you have to discuss the topic as a whole. It's hard to stay on topic of the video other than to say "it's heavily edited to manipulate the truth" vs. the other side saying "these people are exposing the truth about PP."

But there are things to talk about, for instance, if you accept legal abortion as a given (since currently it is), what do you feel are the ethics of donating fetal tissue? Is that problematic in itself? Why?

I'm curious at what point a fetal liver, for example, becomes a liver worthy of being classified as such/researched? You'd think that if an abortion is done early/legally, there should not be any "livers" laying around.

Abortion is legal in most areas until 20-24 weeks (depending on the state). The liver is developed and functioning at around 10 weeks.