Is it reasonable to have to replace a 7-year old A/C system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You definitely got ripped off on the testing. That is ridiculous.

However, Freon is exceptionally expensive so the refill amount sounds about right.

And, yes, regulations changed a few years back regarding Freon usage. As I understand, the systems use a different cooling fuel now than they did 10 years ago, so to the extent you replace a condenser, you need to replace the entire system at once, i.e. you can't do it piecemeal. For whatever reason, this logic also applies to moderate to major repairs -- I know that once the repairs surpass a certain price point or repair level, you can't just repair -- you need to replace. So the subsequent logic of replacing your entire system was right. Too bad they ripped you off for $1100 of testing prior to that. You should see if that amount can be applied to the cost of the new system.

The $1100 would be applied to the cost of a new system. Our question now is whether to do that, or to see if the temporary fix (liquid sealant) holds out for awhile.

We'd like to get other opinions but I don't really know how to do that without having to pay more people to come out and test things.

I'm just really annoyed at myself. I'm a first-time home owner and have never dealt with a problem this big before. Plus, the house was sweltering and I have 2 small kids, so I felt like I just needed it fixed ASAP.

Go out get a couple of window units as a temp solution. They are relatively cheap. HomeDepot or Lowes.

The A/C is up and running. But they say it has a leak meaning it will go down again. So we are trying to decide whether to replace it or just see how long it holds out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You definitely got ripped off on the testing. That is ridiculous.

However, Freon is exceptionally expensive so the refill amount sounds about right.

And, yes, regulations changed a few years back regarding Freon usage. As I understand, the systems use a different cooling fuel now than they did 10 years ago, so to the extent you replace a condenser, you need to replace the entire system at once, i.e. you can't do it piecemeal. For whatever reason, this logic also applies to moderate to major repairs -- I know that once the repairs surpass a certain price point or repair level, you can't just repair -- you need to replace. So the subsequent logic of replacing your entire system was right. Too bad they ripped you off for $1100 of testing prior to that. You should see if that amount can be applied to the cost of the new system.

The $1100 would be applied to the cost of a new system. Our question now is whether to do that, or to see if the temporary fix (liquid sealant) holds out for awhile.

We'd like to get other opinions but I don't really know how to do that without having to pay more people to come out and test things.

I'm just really annoyed at myself. I'm a first-time home owner and have never dealt with a problem this big before. Plus, the house was sweltering and I have 2 small kids, so I felt like I just needed it fixed ASAP.

Companies will come out to give you a quote for free.

How can they give a quote if they don't know what's wrong? I am questioning whether there is even a need for a new system.

NP - I think OP was talking about getting a second opinion on repair and PP's free quote was referring to getting a new system.

[Anonymous]

Thats crazy, We had a freon leak w/ a new system. We had a maintenance plan w/ cropp and all they did was keep refilling it and claiming it was loose fittings that they tightened. One year after the same thing over and over again, We found another company that did the proper testing to find the leaking part. The leak was the coil so they diagnosed for 80 dollars and replaced the coil and did it for 1k because it was under warranty.

[Anonymous]

It is not implausible the system could be broken but I would not trust this company's word on that question.

[Anonymous]

Did you get annual servicing? If you did, then yes, I think it's unreasonable to have to replace the system. If not, then probably not too unreasonable. we just had a/c issues. and i blame us partly b/c we did not get the annual service visits -- that's changing. our system is 5 years old and both our inner and outer coils were broken/leaking, so we had to replace both. that said, we fortunately have a great warranty, so it ended up being free. had we not had the warranty, the cost would have been $5000ish.

[Anonymous]

Freon/refrigerant/R410A is not expensive, but the HVAC companies mark it up ridiculously because you're not allowed to handle it without an EPA license. The retail price for 25 pounds is $90, which is enough for 2-3 average systems:

http://www.amazon.com/R410a-Refrigerant-ICELONG-original-Brand/dp/B00MNJZ1OG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434637422&sr=8-1&keywords=r410a

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Freon/refrigerant/R410A is not expensive, but the HVAC companies mark it up ridiculously because you're not allowed to handle it without an EPA license. The retail price for 25 pounds is $90, which is enough for 2-3 average systems:

http://www.amazon.com/R410a-Refrigerant-ICELONG-original-Brand/dp/B00MNJZ1OG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434637422&sr=8-1&keywords=r410a

Older systems use R22, which is expensive. $800 worth? I doubt it. We have a leak somewhere and for the last couple years we have someone come every year or so and add a little freon. Cost us about $150 each time, and one time the guy spent some time searching for the leak w/ a sniffer.

[Anonymous]

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/r22-refrigerant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You definitely got ripped off on the testing. That is ridiculous.

However, Freon is exceptionally expensive so the refill amount sounds about right.

And, yes, regulations changed a few years back regarding Freon usage. As I understand, the systems use a different cooling fuel now than they did 10 years ago, so to the extent you replace a condenser, you need to replace the entire system at once, i.e. you can't do it piecemeal. For whatever reason, this logic also applies to moderate to major repairs -- I know that once the repairs surpass a certain price point or repair level, you can't just repair -- you need to replace. So the subsequent logic of replacing your entire system was right. Too bad they ripped you off for $1100 of testing prior to that. You should see if that amount can be applied to the cost of the new system.

The $1100 would be applied to the cost of a new system. Our question now is whether to do that, or to see if the temporary fix (liquid sealant) holds out for awhile.

We'd like to get other opinions but I don't really know how to do that without having to pay more people to come out and test things.

I'm just really annoyed at myself. I'm a first-time home owner and have never dealt with a problem this big before. Plus, the house was sweltering and I have 2 small kids, so I felt like I just needed it fixed ASAP.

Get a few more opinions. Go to Costco and get a few window units. We got one and are having several companies come out. Everyone has a different opinion. You got ripped off.

[Anonymous]

This is OP again. Just to clarify-- they added the freon and did the testing, so it is done and I have functioning A/C. I don't need window units. I just need to decide whether to pursue replacing the system if there are indeed leaks.

However, since consensus is that I got ripped off, is there any recourse I can take at this point? Is it possible to complain and get any money back?

[Anonymous]

We had a freon leak and were told that the only real fix was to replace the coil (I think that's the part), which we did. if I were you, I would take advantage of the time you are buying with the freon recharge and call around. Since the company you used will apply the $1,100 to a new system, the first thing you need to do is get a quote for a new system (or part) from that company. Then call other places and ask what they would charge to diagnose the system and to replace it. They will probably apply the diagnostic fee to a new system. Go with a reputable company that offers the most cost effective solution. And get a good maintenance contract. You will get priority service if this happens again.

We found that even with a new system, the AC did not cool to the degree that we wanted when it was really hot. The company said that they could do more extensive troubleshooting to find elusive leaks in the ductwork (or whatever it is). That would cost about $900, so we passed. It's possible that your company did the more extensive testing, which would have elevated the cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. Just to clarify-- they added the freon and did the testing, so it is done and I have functioning A/C. I don't need window units. I just need to decide whether to pursue replacing the system if there are indeed leaks.

However, since consensus is that I got ripped off, is there any recourse I can take at this point? Is it possible to complain and get any money back?

No, that cost is sunk.

We were in your shoes shortly after we bought our house (although the system was older -- more like 13 years old). All I can say is I had to put in Freon and seal a leak and that got me through the summer. It's possible you'll get through THIS summer as well. But you may have to consider a new unit next April (or in Feb/March if they're less expensive then). At least you can have time to budget.

We got through three summer seasons doing this, and then I got tired of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. Just to clarify-- they added the freon and did the testing, so it is done and I have functioning A/C. I don't need window units. I just need to decide whether to pursue replacing the system if there are indeed leaks.

However, since consensus is that I got ripped off, is there any recourse I can take at this point? Is it possible to complain and get any money back?

I'm not a lawyer, but it doesn't matter what the consensus is here. People here can't even agree on the cost of freon. First, you don't know what other companies would have charged (for the exact same service). Second, I would have thought that the company would have informed you upfront of the extensive expense that you would incur, but I doubt that they have to. You asked for a service and you got it. Had you asked what it would cost, they undoubtedly would have told you. Third, had you had a service contract on the system, the troubleshooting and recharge probably would have been free.

I understand your frustration, but I think it's premature to take action against this company.

[Anonymous]

For $1100 in testing, they should be able to tell you exactly where the leak was, which would be helpful information. It seems clear it is not in a fitting or line, which would be an easy repair. But I'm not sure what you mean by it being in the "system itself." Some parts replacements will cost more than 50% of the cost of the system, so there's a good argument for replacing the system. Other replacements will be expensive, but not so expensive to justify a full replacement.

Basically, some A/C companies are lazy and will suggest replacing a system that doesn't need to be replaced, especially where they work on commission. But there are also times where it probably does make sense to replace. I don't really see a strong reason to trust whomever you worked with, but I would at least get as specific information as possible out of your insanely expensive testing.

And no, I don't think you really have a remedy for what you paid already. If you could get some other A/C techs to definitively say you got ripped off, you might try demanding a partial refund. But if they don't give you one, its probably not worth pursuing further.

[Anonymous]

I am probably going to get flamed for suggesting this but about 10 years ago our condenser developed a leak that was not cost effective to repair. It was a Carrier system. A technician who worked for one of the better known companies told me that if he were in my position and wanted a fix that would last a while but was not the usual course of action, he'd buy a new condenser (the outside unit) and hook it up to the existing inside unit which was in good shape. He recommended someone who could do the installation for me. I bought a Goodman 3 ton condenser online and the guy just replaced the old unit with the Goodman. Ten years later it is still working fine and it cost me all of $1200 including installation.

The only drawback was that the Goodman used the old R22 freon since that was what the inside unit had and it was not the most energy efficient unit but it was a quick inexpensive fix that has lasted a decade. No leaks, no problems whatever and unless someone has the technical knowledge the average person would not even be aware of the unconventional fix.