Is this accommodation or neglect? Long.

[Anonymous]

OP-- I think you're trying to be a good friend. I have a friend with an adolescent DD who has had problems since birth-- it went from a train wreck at home, to a train wreck at school and home. Finally, in HS she is at risk for school failure, making herself and her family miserable, and showing all signs of serious anxiety, emergent depression.

I finally told my friend that going from one quack to the next has not been the answer. Her daughter needs a neuropsych and I suspect severe, untreated ADHD (although I'm not an expert and quick to point that out here and to her). I said it because I care about the family and their daughter.

I don't go around dispensing unasked for advice, but sometimes a good friend has to be a friend. Good luck with the conversation, OP. Hopefully, your friend realizes that you are well-intentioned and trying to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of SN kids behave a lot better at school than they do at home. In fact a lot of kids do. This is due to a variety of factors. Some kids hold it together at school and then lose it at the end of the day at home due to the strain of keeping it together. Or some kids' medications wear off at the end of the day. Some educators are more skilled/experienced than parents (like your friend) at handling misbehavior and will not put up with it, so kids know the rules and the consequences and do in fact act better. It's easier for a teacher to give a consequence than it is for a parent. It just is.

And if this boy walked on a table a few times at school, it seems that the school dealt with that effectively and appropriately. I'm not sure what you are looking for here. Validation that he is a troublemaker at school as well as at home? A chance to micromanage his IEP? Hectoring the mother?

OP, what are your goals in this situation? This isn't reality tv. This is a young boy. You say you are an educator. Students don't get "asked to leave" public schools. If a placement is inappropriate, that placement is changed.

I've followed your post for the last couple of days and while I don't think you are a troll, I think you are mean-spirited and I seriously question your good will in this situation. You say this is like watching a car crash. Well, you remind me exactly of people who gather around a car crash to rubberneck, for absolutely no reason -- MOVE ON. Drop this friend because you are not a friend to her.

Sigh. This is the kind of response I was dreading. I think I've been pretty damn clear about WHY I'm posting, and what I wanted to accomplish. If you reread what I said, you'll see that the child's PARENT told me that he acts the same way at school as he does elsewhere. I didn't post every single inappropriate behavior that John does at school (that Jane told me, that the TEACHER told her), because I wasn't there to see them. But, I believe Jane (what reason would she have to EXAGGERATE her son's behavior at school?).

Also, they are like family to me, and I have SEEN how John acts. I have been given dirty looks and sharp words when we go out, because of him. Many times we've had to cut outings short because he was out of control (restaurants, playgrounds, museums, grocery stores). My son loves John, but acts worse when John is around. Whenever they visit, I have a huge cleanup and a garbage bag full of broken stuff when they go. I may be a doormat for putting up with it, but I am not a bad friend!

I posted on an anonymous board, trying to balance discretion with giving enough detail for everyone to understand the situation-- because I am worried about this kid, and it FINALLY looks like Jane might be in a place to receive advice. So, I wanted to get as much good advice from the DCUM SN forum as I could. I would like to help STOP the "car crash," if possible. If I was in that position, I'd like someone to do the same for me. I've gotten tons of good advice about my ASD son from other parents.

As for students being asked to leave public schools, yes, that is actually possible. However, I teach at a PRIVATE school (don't assume, please).

I KNOW everything you said in your first paragraph, because as I said, I am an experienced educator, and have my own SN kid. In fact, I'm generally the "SN Whisperer" (my colleagues' term, so don't yell at me) in our elementary department. I am the teacher who is given the challenging kids, and I'm often asked for advice when a SN/discipline issue comes up in someone else's class. I'm sure you won't believe that but it is true.

I don't think I implied anywhere that I wanted to micromanage John's IEP (how on earth would I, even?). I have helped build students' IEPs and 504 plans. I have been through the whole process with my ds, so the lack of behavioral supports and goals raised a red flag for me. As I said in my first post, I'm worried that his school isn't giving him the education he needs and deserves. I wanted to hear what others thought.

I'm mystified at what I've done that shows I'm "not a friend" to Jane. She's lost friends because of John, but I've stuck with her. I don't gossip about her and John (unless you're counting this thread, which is just strange). I'm willing to risk our longstanding friendship to try and improve her son's schooling (and possibly adult outcome). Whatever.

Thank you to the posters who actually offered help.

But you seem to feel that the magic solution is within your friend's grasp; that his behavior is somehow her fault; and that your advice will be the key to changing the whole thing and making him behave differently. The situation is what it is. If you don't like the way this child behaves, don't interact with them. Whether or not he is SN or simply a badly-behaved kid.

This isn't about you and your magical SN whispering and your dynamite solutions. Nor is it about us finding the magical Kryptonite. You obviously feel that she has failed her child. She is desperate. I certainly get that. And that isn't the time for you to prey upon her with some half-assed advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of SN kids behave a lot better at school than they do at home. In fact a lot of kids do. This is due to a variety of factors. Some kids hold it together at school and then lose it at the end of the day at home due to the strain of keeping it together. Or some kids' medications wear off at the end of the day. Some educators are more skilled/experienced than parents (like your friend) at handling misbehavior and will not put up with it, so kids know the rules and the consequences and do in fact act better. It's easier for a teacher to give a consequence than it is for a parent. It just is.

And if this boy walked on a table a few times at school, it seems that the school dealt with that effectively and appropriately. I'm not sure what you are looking for here. Validation that he is a troublemaker at school as well as at home? A chance to micromanage his IEP? Hectoring the mother?

OP, what are your goals in this situation? This isn't reality tv. This is a young boy. You say you are an educator. Students don't get "asked to leave" public schools. If a placement is inappropriate, that placement is changed.

I've followed your post for the last couple of days and while I don't think you are a troll, I think you are mean-spirited and I seriously question your good will in this situation. You say this is like watching a car crash. Well, you remind me exactly of people who gather around a car crash to rubberneck, for absolutely no reason -- MOVE ON. Drop this friend because you are not a friend to her.

Sigh. This is the kind of response I was dreading. I think I've been pretty damn clear about WHY I'm posting, and what I wanted to accomplish. If you reread what I said, you'll see that the child's PARENT told me that he acts the same way at school as he does elsewhere. I didn't post every single inappropriate behavior that John does at school (that Jane told me, that the TEACHER told her), because I wasn't there to see them. But, I believe Jane (what reason would she have to EXAGGERATE her son's behavior at school?).

Also, they are like family to me, and I have SEEN how John acts. I have been given dirty looks and sharp words when we go out, because of him. Many times we've had to cut outings short because he was out of control (restaurants, playgrounds, museums, grocery stores). My son loves John, but acts worse when John is around. Whenever they visit, I have a huge cleanup and a garbage bag full of broken stuff when they go. I may be a doormat for putting up with it, but I am not a bad friend!

I posted on an anonymous board, trying to balance discretion with giving enough detail for everyone to understand the situation-- because I am worried about this kid, and it FINALLY looks like Jane might be in a place to receive advice. So, I wanted to get as much good advice from the DCUM SN forum as I could. I would like to help STOP the "car crash," if possible. If I was in that position, I'd like someone to do the same for me. I've gotten tons of good advice about my ASD son from other parents.

As for students being asked to leave public schools, yes, that is actually possible. However, I teach at a PRIVATE school (don't assume, please).

I KNOW everything you said in your first paragraph, because as I said, I am an experienced educator, and have my own SN kid. In fact, I'm generally the "SN Whisperer" (my colleagues' term, so don't yell at me) in our elementary department. I am the teacher who is given the challenging kids, and I'm often asked for advice when a SN/discipline issue comes up in someone else's class. I'm sure you won't believe that but it is true.

I don't think I implied anywhere that I wanted to micromanage John's IEP (how on earth would I, even?). I have helped build students' IEPs and 504 plans. I have been through the whole process with my ds, so the lack of behavioral supports and goals raised a red flag for me. As I said in my first post, I'm worried that his school isn't giving him the education he needs and deserves. I wanted to hear what others thought.

I'm mystified at what I've done that shows I'm "not a friend" to Jane. She's lost friends because of John, but I've stuck with her. I don't gossip about her and John (unless you're counting this thread, which is just strange). I'm willing to risk our longstanding friendship to try and improve her son's schooling (and possibly adult outcome). Whatever.

Thank you to the posters who actually offered help.

But you seem to feel that the magic solution is within your friend's grasp; that his behavior is somehow her fault; and that your advice will be the key to changing the whole thing and making him behave differently. The situation is what it is. If you don't like the way this child behaves, don't interact with them. Whether or not he is SN or simply a badly-behaved kid.

This isn't about you and your magical SN whispering and your dynamite solutions. Nor is it about us finding the magical Kryptonite. You obviously feel that she has failed her child. She is desperate. I certainly get that. And that isn't the time for you to prey upon her with some half-assed advice.

Oh, for Pete's sake. If that's how you interpret what I've said, I pity your comprehension skills. I'm done.

[Anonymous]

OP: I hope you come back. What you describe comes across as undiagnosed ADHD, but who knows what it really is all about. Your friend should get a reputable neuropsych done for her son and should ask the school to help develop behavioral goals for him No middle school will put up with this. In DC, they would call the security guards and eventually the police. The school system will move to put him elsewhere with other children with serious behavior problems. If you think the situation can be changed, help your friend see that there are basic steps she can take to get on top of the situation. In this case, you can do it from the perspective of sharing your own experiences - your child was tested, he has behavioral goals, it has helped in the these ways, etc. You can draw parallels, but she has to walk this path. Sometimes it is good to have someone who has been down that road ahead of you.

There are some people on this board who recommend that you say or do nothing because they have already experienced the pain of having people offer opinions that they don't want to hear. So their advice is to act the way they want their friends to act and butt out. That's often good advice, but not always the only or best advice. I lost a friend by speaking up and I have kept friends because I spoke up.

If you think you are risking the friendship and that matters, then don't do it. But if you think the moment is right, then you should at least point her in the right direction. Sometimes people are so overwhelmed, they don't know where to start.