Christ-Centered, faith based organizations for girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're not even that religious, but your main concern for your -year-old is that she stay pure until marriage? what horrible, dark corner did you crawl out of?

Not OP, but seriously ... it's such a horrible thing for a person remain a Virgin until marriage???
Gimme a break

Not pp, but I do think it's such a horrible thing to think having sex before marriage makes someone less pure, or impure, or has any effect whatsoever on their moral character. What a weird concept, and what a weird thing to place any significant value on.

Sex really isn't a weird thing to place value on at all. It is a form of intimacy and people have different values about when that level of intimacy is appropriate. there is an incredible range of the value people place on sex. Some place no value and have sex at any age, with anyone, at any time for any reason. Others value waiting until they are older and able to make sense of the responsibilities that come with it. Others only value sex in a committed relationship, others value sex as something shared between a married couple. You obviously are at a different spot on the spectrum than OP - and probably also on a different spot than the 12 yr old having numerous one night stands or having group sex or the woman having sex with 3 guys while married. You have your own definition of sexual morality - accept that your definition doesn't apply to everyone.

I 100000% agree with this, which is precisely why I think it's weird to feel like you need to have control over what your child's future sex life may or may not be. Teach them to respect themselves. Teach them to be safe. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to surround themselves with other people who respect them. Teach them to make their own choices, whatever they may be so long as they do the aforementioned things. But don't teach them that they're going to be less pure or less worthy just because they have sex.

No one except you has said they were less worthy or less pure just because they have sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one except you has said they were less worthy or less pure just because they have sex.

Lol. True dat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're not even that religious, but your main concern for your -year-old is that she stay pure until marriage? what horrible, dark corner did you crawl out of?

Not OP, but seriously ... it's such a horrible thing for a person remain a Virgin until marriage???
Gimme a break

Not pp, but I do think it's such a horrible thing to think having sex before marriage makes someone less pure, or impure, or has any effect whatsoever on their moral character. What a weird concept, and what a weird thing to place any significant value on.

Sex really isn't a weird thing to place value on at all. It is a form of intimacy and people have different values about when that level of intimacy is appropriate. there is an incredible range of the value people place on sex. Some place no value and have sex at any age, with anyone, at any time for any reason. Others value waiting until they are older and able to make sense of the responsibilities that come with it. Others only value sex in a committed relationship, others value sex as something shared between a married couple. You obviously are at a different spot on the spectrum than OP - and probably also on a different spot than the 12 yr old having numerous one night stands or having group sex or the woman having sex with 3 guys while married. You have your own definition of sexual morality - accept that your definition doesn't apply to everyone.

I 100000% agree with this, which is precisely why I think it's weird to feel like you need to have control over what your child's future sex life may or may not be. Teach them to respect themselves. Teach them to be safe. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to surround themselves with other people who respect them. Teach them to make their own choices, whatever they may be so long as they do the aforementioned things. But don't teach them that they're going to be less pure or less worthy just because they have sex.

No one except you has said they were less worthy or less pure just because they have sex.

I don't look down on people just for having different values from mine. I went to college with many kids who came from very religious families, and whose parents and clergy expected them to remain virgins until marriage. Most of them were engaged by the time they finished college, to people with whom they shared more than a superficial attraction, and most of these marriages, as far as I know, turned out happy enough, although I also believe that only a minority actually waited until their wedding night for consummation.

what bothers me about OP's question is that he or she admits not being an active member of a faith tradition to whom the belief that sex should be saved for marriage is just one of the extensions of their values. Nor does OP feel a strong spiritual need to immerse him or herself in such a faith tradition. No, OP is seeking a religious setting for his/her daughter in order to keep her pure. What is worse, the young maiden in question, just waiting to be lead astray, is 6. I could maybe understand a conservative parent panicking when their child reaches the teenage years, but this kind of focus on a 6-year-old's future sexuality feels incredibly creepy to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't look down on people just for having different values from mine. I went to college with many kids who came from very religious families, and whose parents and clergy expected them to remain virgins until marriage. Most of them were engaged by the time they finished college, to people with whom they shared more than a superficial attraction, and most of these marriages, as far as I know, turned out happy enough, although I also believe that only a minority actually waited until their wedding night for consummation.

what bothers me about OP's question is that he or she admits not being an active member of a faith tradition to whom the belief that sex should be saved for marriage is just one of the extensions of their values. Nor does OP feel a strong spiritual need to immerse him or herself in such a faith tradition. No, OP is seeking a religious setting for his/her daughter in order to keep her pure. What is worse, the young maiden in question, just waiting to be lead astray, is 6. I could maybe understand a conservative parent panicking when their child reaches the teenage years, but this kind of focus on a 6-year-old's future sexuality feels incredibly creepy to me.

Luckily OP can make those choices for her child and you are free to make different ones for yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're not even that religious, but your main concern for your -year-old is that she stay pure until marriage? what horrible, dark corner did you crawl out of?

Not OP, but seriously ... it's such a horrible thing for a person remain a Virgin until marriage???
Gimme a break

Not pp, but I do think it's such a horrible thing to think having sex before marriage makes someone less pure, or impure, or has any effect whatsoever on their moral character. What a weird concept, and what a weird thing to place any significant value on.

Sex really isn't a weird thing to place value on at all. It is a form of intimacy and people have different values about when that level of intimacy is appropriate. there is an incredible range of the value people place on sex. Some place no value and have sex at any age, with anyone, at any time for any reason. Others value waiting until they are older and able to make sense of the responsibilities that come with it. Others only value sex in a committed relationship, others value sex as something shared between a married couple. You obviously are at a different spot on the spectrum than OP - and probably also on a different spot than the 12 yr old having numerous one night stands or having group sex or the woman having sex with 3 guys while married. You have your own definition of sexual morality - accept that your definition doesn't apply to everyone.

I 100000% agree with this, which is precisely why I think it's weird to feel like you need to have control over what your child's future sex life may or may not be. Teach them to respect themselves. Teach them to be safe. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to surround themselves with other people who respect them. Teach them to make their own choices, whatever they may be so long as they do the aforementioned things. But don't teach them that they're going to be less pure or less worthy just because they have sex.

No one except you has said they were less worthy or less pure just because they have sex.

I don't look down on people just for having different values from mine. I went to college with many kids who came from very religious families, and whose parents and clergy expected them to remain virgins until marriage. Most of them were engaged by the time they finished college, to people with whom they shared more than a superficial attraction, and most of these marriages, as far as I know, turned out happy enough, although I also believe that only a minority actually waited until their wedding night for consummation.

what bothers me about OP's question is that he or she admits not being an active member of a faith tradition to whom the belief that sex should be saved for marriage is just one of the extensions of their values. Nor does OP feel a strong spiritual need to immerse him or herself in such a faith tradition. No, OP is seeking a religious setting for his/her daughter in order to keep her pure. What is worse, the young maiden in question, just waiting to be lead astray, is 6. I could maybe understand a conservative parent panicking when their child reaches the teenage years, but this kind of focus on a 6-year-old's future sexuality feels incredibly creepy to me.

Kids often stay in these programs for years, even into their teen years. Knowing what they stand for and the underlying values are important parts of decision making. Some people don't put their kids in Boy Scouts because of the differing values on gay marriage. It isn't because they are thinking their 6 year olds are about to get into gay sex or gay marriage - it is about the underlying values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're not even that religious, but your main concern for your -year-old is that she stay pure until marriage? what horrible, dark corner did you crawl out of?

Not OP, but seriously ... it's such a horrible thing for a person remain a Virgin until marriage???
Gimme a break

Not pp, but I do think it's such a horrible thing to think having sex before marriage makes someone less pure, or impure, or has any effect whatsoever on their moral character. What a weird concept, and what a weird thing to place any significant value on.

Why is it weird to you? Don't judge other's religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

PS: My parents didn't think it was immoral or sinful, either. Mum talked with me about birth control in my teens. They allowed me to express how I felt about boys, relationships, all that. Another sister also waited a very long time--oh, how chaste we were. Third sister held out 'til age 15 or 16. She was always the leader in her relationships, and still is, in some ways now that she's in her mid 30s. Always very responsible, too. Parents never worried about her being bullied or coerced.

I think the key here is that everyone was safe, made good choices, was respectful, expected to be respected, was informed, knew all about science, thoughtful and reflective, and all that. Honestly. Self-awareness, other-awareness, and science are the holy trinity when it comes to sexual choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

PS: My parents didn't think it was immoral or sinful, either. Mum talked with me about birth control in my teens. They allowed me to express how I felt about boys, relationships, all that. Another sister also waited a very long time--oh, how chaste we were. Third sister held out 'til age 15 or 16. She was always the leader in her relationships, and still is, in some ways now that she's in her mid 30s. Always very responsible, too. Parents never worried about her being bullied or coerced.

I think the key here is that everyone was safe, made good choices, was respectful, expected to be respected, was informed, knew all about science, thoughtful and reflective, and all that. Honestly. Self-awareness, other-awareness, and science are the holy trinity when it comes to sexual choices.

Those are YOUR values about sex. Not everyone shares them and that is actually okay. Others have other values that they see as important related to sexual choices. Your parents instilled in you their values about sex and you seem to have continued to share in their values. Ops daughter may do the same and continue to share the values her parents instill in her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

PS: My parents didn't think it was immoral or sinful, either. Mum talked with me about birth control in my teens. They allowed me to express how I felt about boys, relationships, all that. Another sister also waited a very long time--oh, how chaste we were. Third sister held out 'til age 15 or 16. She was always the leader in her relationships, and still is, in some ways now that she's in her mid 30s. Always very responsible, too. Parents never worried about her being bullied or coerced.

I think the key here is that everyone was safe, made good choices, was respectful, expected to be respected, was informed, knew all about science, thoughtful and reflective, and all that. Honestly. Self-awareness, other-awareness, and science are the holy trinity when it comes to sexual choices.

Those are YOUR values about sex. Not everyone shares them and that is actually okay. Others have other values that they see as important related to sexual choices. Your parents instilled in you their values about sex and you seem to have continued to share in their values. Ops daughter may do the same and continue to share the values her parents instill in her.

True 'nuff. Though I'm not at all convinced that it's okay to think that waiting to have sex before marriage is a *dogmatic* value of equal worth to my own.

But I'm "judgey" like that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

PS: My parents didn't think it was immoral or sinful, either. Mum talked with me about birth control in my teens. They allowed me to express how I felt about boys, relationships, all that. Another sister also waited a very long time--oh, how chaste we were. Third sister held out 'til age 15 or 16. She was always the leader in her relationships, and still is, in some ways now that she's in her mid 30s. Always very responsible, too. Parents never worried about her being bullied or coerced.

I think the key here is that everyone was safe, made good choices, was respectful, expected to be respected, was informed, knew all about science, thoughtful and reflective, and all that. Honestly. Self-awareness, other-awareness, and science are the holy trinity when it comes to sexual choices.

Those are YOUR values about sex. Not everyone shares them and that is actually okay. Others have other values that they see as important related to sexual choices. Your parents instilled in you their values about sex and you seem to have continued to share in their values. Ops daughter may do the same and continue to share the values her parents instill in her.

Sorry to belabor the point, but I think there is a huge difference between sexual values that come out of one's religion or general life philosophy (like PP's values that seem to come from her family's general belief in respecting other people and making smart choices in life) and a sex-negative value that seems unrelated to any deeply held religious belief. If OP had said, "we don't go to Hindu temple, but one of the most important criteria when selecting an after school program for my child is that they practice strict Hinduism and feed her a strictly vegetarian diet and emphasize the importance of adhering to such a diet for the rest of her life." Would you say, "OP is entitled to raise her child Hindu," or would you assume that OP has some (probably unhealthy) obsession with restricting what her child eats that has nothing to do with religion or core moral values?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

PS: My parents didn't think it was immoral or sinful, either. Mum talked with me about birth control in my teens. They allowed me to express how I felt about boys, relationships, all that. Another sister also waited a very long time--oh, how chaste we were. Third sister held out 'til age 15 or 16. She was always the leader in her relationships, and still is, in some ways now that she's in her mid 30s. Always very responsible, too. Parents never worried about her being bullied or coerced.

I think the key here is that everyone was safe, made good choices, was respectful, expected to be respected, was informed, knew all about science, thoughtful and reflective, and all that. Honestly. Self-awareness, other-awareness, and science are the holy trinity when it comes to sexual choices.

Those are YOUR values about sex. Not everyone shares them and that is actually okay. Others have other values that they see as important related to sexual choices. Your parents instilled in you their values about sex and you seem to have continued to share in their values. Ops daughter may do the same and continue to share the values her parents instill in her.

Sorry to belabor the point, but I think there is a huge difference between sexual values that come out of one's religion or general life philosophy (like PP's values that seem to come from her family's general belief in respecting other people and making smart choices in life) and a sex-negative value that seems unrelated to any deeply held religious belief. If OP had said, "we don't go to Hindu temple, but one of the most important criteria when selecting an after school program for my child is that they practice strict Hinduism and feed her a strictly vegetarian diet and emphasize the importance of adhering to such a diet for the rest of her life." Would you say, "OP is entitled to raise her child Hindu," or would you assume that OP has some (probably unhealthy) obsession with restricting what her child eats that has nothing to do with religion or core moral values?

It is your belief that remaining a virgin until marriage is a bad thing - or sex negative as you call it. Not everyone feels that way.

And your Hindu example doesn't parallel what OP said. She was looking for a program that shared her values. She wasn't forcing any action on the 6 year old.

[Anonymous]

My problem with much programs is they invariable teach narrow-mindedness. They teach that we are better than you; we will be saved, you are going to hell.

[Anonymous]

I second that the OPs concern about her 6 year old's future sex life (or lack there of) is creepy. Of all the things to be concerned about, you're worried about your kid not having sex until marriage? Now? Sure, in 5 or 6 years worry about it, but now? Also, you can teach all you want, but inevitably the choice is the daughters - you can let her know nothing about sex and find out through experience, or educate her and let her make the decision. I'm not saying you have to explain STDs to a 6 year old, but you can present info in an educational mannor (at an age appropriate time) - which American Heritage Girls, etc. don't exactly do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ha. So many women wait until their 30s to get married. Surely a 23, 24, 30 year old woman can make a valid choice about having sex before marriage.

I waited a veeeery long time, into my 20s. I didn't think it was immoral or sinful to have sex before marriage. I just knew what was right for me.

I'm an atheist.

PS: My parents didn't think it was immoral or sinful, either. Mum talked with me about birth control in my teens. They allowed me to express how I felt about boys, relationships, all that. Another sister also waited a very long time--oh, how chaste we were. Third sister held out 'til age 15 or 16. She was always the leader in her relationships, and still is, in some ways now that she's in her mid 30s. Always very responsible, too. Parents never worried about her being bullied or coerced.

I think the key here is that everyone was safe, made good choices, was respectful, expected to be respected, was informed, knew all about science, thoughtful and reflective, and all that. Honestly. Self-awareness, other-awareness, and science are the holy trinity when it comes to sexual choices.

Those are YOUR values about sex. Not everyone shares them and that is actually okay. Others have other values that they see as important related to sexual choices. Your parents instilled in you their values about sex and you seem to have continued to share in their values. Ops daughter may do the same and continue to share the values her parents instill in her.

Sorry to belabor the point, but I think there is a huge difference between sexual values that come out of one's religion or general life philosophy (like PP's values that seem to come from her family's general belief in respecting other people and making smart choices in life) and a sex-negative value that seems unrelated to any deeply held religious belief. If OP had said, "we don't go to Hindu temple, but one of the most important criteria when selecting an after school program for my child is that they practice strict Hinduism and feed her a strictly vegetarian diet and emphasize the importance of adhering to such a diet for the rest of her life." Would you say, "OP is entitled to raise her child Hindu," or would you assume that OP has some (probably unhealthy) obsession with restricting what her child eats that has nothing to do with religion or core moral values?

I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. For all we know she has had or knows those who have had negative experiences from having sex early on and therefore wants to raise her DD in an environment that encourages waiting. No, I don't think it's effective either, but I get trying to raise your kid better than you were (assuming OP has negative history with sexual activity) and sometimes that results in different choices.

For example, maybe someone comes from a family of alcoholics and doesn't want her child around parents who drink openly. We can all say, "Seeing an adult drink at a dinner party doesn't lead to alcoholism, and besides, your kid is 6! she's not going to pop open a cold one anytime soon." But that person may be sensitive to exposure from an early age. OP may not think 6 is too early for this or maybe she wants to have her DD build a community for years that openly values abstinence.

We just don't know.