A question for Jewish men or women in their 40's

[Anonymous]

Also, I don't have to think every single thing Israel does is right to be an Israel supporter. I think they do plenty of bad stuff. But I feel like they have the right to defend themselves and i feel like Hamas are really the bad guys here. I personally hate when people view this as like "oh, it's like 50/50, two sides to every story blah blah." I'd really say it's more like 80/20 with Israel being in the right and trying to defend themselves against a terrorist organization whose charter calls for their destruction. Also, OP, your wording is creepy and makes it sound like you view Jewish people as another species.

[Anonymous]

I am agnostic/atheist. Raised Christian. I posted a few pro Palestinian items on FB because I support the Palestinians and have a Palestinian friend.

Needless to say, I was quickly "de-friended" by two Jewish friends who are completely and totally pro Israel.

it sort of made me feel bad but I think they were overreacting. It is as if I am not allowed free speech or they can't be friends with anyone who does not believe in Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Jewish man in his 40's who group up fully ensconced in the culture. There is a certain emotional (perhaps illogical or irrational at times) element to it. I don't want to make it sound like Jews are unique - cause they're not - but it's often something that is very difficult to put in to words. It's part the history that we're taught - some would call it a culture of victimhood, some would call it a culture of survival - both are probably right; it's part the fact that the religion is not prosthelytizing, so we don't have a lot of new recruits!; it's part the chosen people nonsense; it's partly that there wasn't a country that was predominantly jewish until 1948; it's part emotional and fuzzy; and many other things I can't think of right. See I can't explain it. But I know it, and it's hard to be totally rational about it.

Thanks for your post. While I think there is a universal appeal to support a people who try to recover from the horror of the murder of 6 million of their number by design, where I think a lot of people are starting to have problems is in the expansion into what was taken under military occupation in 1967 and the cynical settlement building and dissproportiate counter attacks on the Arab people.

You refer to a culture of victimhood having as its other face the culture of survival.

Here is my question: do you believe that when men like Begin and Yitzak Shamir came to Palestine as refugees of the hollocaust , they had left in them as men any human compassion for the people they would soon disposess through their actions in the Irgun and Haggah and later when they pursued restoration of " greater Israel" as PM's ? Or, do you think after 6 million fellow Jews murdered they simpy believe " fuck the rest of the world" and lost their humanity for any and all who are not their fellow Jews and they simply don't care what the world says, thinks or does ?

Now those PM's time is over. Netanyahu was raised in an affluent suburb of suburban Philadelphia. His family chose to emigrate and chose to enter a war zone. How is it he claims the same psychologic mantle of "survivor" Very, very different life , but same complete dissregard for the value of Arab lives. What is the moral basis for this perpetuation?

I've been to Israel and I've had settlers with New York accents say to me " one Jewish life is worth a hundred Arab lives".

Do you think that kind a belief reflects a lost sense of humanity ?

Wasn't it a rabbi who said " he who saves oen life saves the world" so , how can a people guided wrapping themselves in the ethos of Judaism act on such thoughts as " one Jewish life is equal to 100 Arab lives ?

[Anonymous]

Isn't this what happens in times of war -- people support their "team" even if they deep down feel that their team isn't doing the right thing? They're not going to be traitors that start supporting the other side.

Signed
-A Muslim who believes that Hamas brings these things on BUT believes that Israel is in the wrong, as a sophisticated enough nation that needs to take out Hamas with targeted strikes -- without killing thousands of 1000s of Muslim civilians who have nothing to do with this.

[jsteele]

Not every thread needs to become a rehash of the Arab-Israeli conflict. There are plenty of threads for such discussion. This thread was started to address a very specific topic. I have been removing posts that veer from that topic and will continue doing so. Your cooperation in sticking to the topic will be appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm in my mid 30s and in our close circle of friends, we are the only Jews. Everyone is politically conservative so that leads me to believe that they would be more supportive of Israel's right to defeat its enemy, but I cannot be sure. We have a Persian couple in the group who fled with the Shah- no clue how they feel about what's going on and frankly I don't want to know.

This is line in the sand issue for us. While we frequently chat about politics with friends, I hope and pray no one brings it up because, like the op's friends, I don't think we can have a calm, rational discussion about it. I don't think there's a single other issue like this one for us. We can calmly discuss just about anything and agree to disagree but not on this.

There's enough going on at home with immigration and health care that hopefully it won't come up.

I think this is the difference between acquaintances and true friends.

no politics and religion at a dinner party with acquaintances!

[Anonymous]

I'm a non-jew going on a date with a jewish woman next week. I kind of want to cancel because i'm worried if this comes up as a topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a non-jew going on a date with a jewish woman next week. I kind of want to cancel because i'm worried if this comes up as a topic.

It's one quick way to find out if you're compatible! lol

[Anonymous]

This is such a complicated situation and although I have sympathies for Palestine - I also see what is happening Europe to Jewish people. I think most people have heard soundbites on the news, but most don't have a complete understanding of the situation (including me). For all these reasons - I am trying to stay as neutral as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in my 40's a professional and Episcopalian as is my H. We are both in a field where there are many Jews that we work with. Many of whom are our friends that we socialize/do business with.

What we have found since this whole upheaval in the Middle East is that it has become beyond a hot button topic if it is brought up. My H fully supports Palestine as do I though we do not go talking about it as we are not by nature confrontational people however at a dinner the other night this situation came up and we were both rather startled over how incredibly defensive and almost indignant every single Jew at that table became when a few other non Jews even hinted that Israel was wrong. It was clear they were at that moment wearing their Israeli hat far more than their American one.

We have found over time that Jews in general seem to defend Israel at any cost even if deep deep down they might just not agree with everything they do, it's almost as if its sacrilegious to go against saying something about their mother country. Which brings me to the point of this post......as a Jew do you feel this way? Is it more about your allegiance to Israel bottom line vs. how you really truly feel? It just really seems that way with literally every single Jewish person we know. Now we are finding ourselves especially as of late avoiding social situations with many of them to avoid uncomfortable situation like the other night which is really unfortunate as we really like a number of them sans the politics!

No. But I do side-eye people who make sweeping statements about "Jews in general".

Pretty sad that you're avoiding social situations. Why not just say "it's a complicated situation, and thoughtful people can disagree about it" and talk about any one of the thousand other topics out there?

- a Jewish woman in her 40s

Thoughtful people can decline to start conversations that may end badly.

It would be unacceptable acquiescence to many of us to remain silent or be expected to equivocate in conversations in which Israel's current military operation is championed or defended.

I do not equate Israel's actions with all Jews, and some of my Jewish friends in this country are the most eloquent, studied opponents of what Netanyahu is doing. However, if it boils down to choosing between someone thinking I'm supportive of Israel right now or anti-Semitic, I'd choose the latter, because it's Palestinian children who are dying by the hundreds at the hands of Israel, with the support of our Government, and I find the argument that anyone else is responsible for their deaths to be nothing short of absurd.

So, no, just saying "it's complicated" doesn't work for me, unless it's truly a way to change the topic.

[Anonymous]

it's so difficult to stay neutral when you hear people you like, good friends even, say things like: "yes it's unfortunate that those kids were killed on the beach, BUT..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The power of anti-Semitism is that it brings Jews together and makes the need for Israel even stronger. I know that not everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite but it often feels that way.

Also, during times of war, people tend to band together for support. Most jews will support Israel over Hamas. It doesn't mean we support every policy or action, but jews are a family and families stick together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Jewish man in his 40's who group up fully ensconced in the culture. There is a certain emotional (perhaps illogical or irrational at times) element to it. I don't want to make it sound like Jews are unique - cause they're not - but it's often something that is very difficult to put in to words. It's part the history that we're taught - some would call it a culture of victimhood, some would call it a culture of survival - both are probably right; it's part the fact that the religion is not prosthelytizing, so we don't have a lot of new recruits!; it's part the chosen people nonsense; it's partly that there wasn't a country that was predominantly jewish until 1948; it's part emotional and fuzzy; and many other things I can't think of right. See I can't explain it. But I know it, and it's hard to be totally rational about it.

Thanks for your post. While I think there is a universal appeal to support a people who try to recover from the horror of the murder of 6 million of their number by design, where I think a lot of people are starting to have problems is in the expansion into what was taken under military occupation in 1967 and the cynical settlement building and dissproportiate counter attacks on the Arab people.

You refer to a culture of victimhood having as its other face the culture of survival.

Here is my question: do you believe that when men like Begin and Yitzak Shamir came to Palestine as refugees of the hollocaust , they had left in them as men any human compassion for the people they would soon disposess through their actions in the Irgun and Haggah and later when they pursued restoration of " greater Israel" as PM's ? Or, do you think after 6 million fellow Jews murdered they simpy believe " fuck the rest of the world" and lost their humanity for any and all who are not their fellow Jews and they simply don't care what the world says, thinks or does ?

Now those PM's time is over. Netanyahu was raised in an affluent suburb of suburban Philadelphia. His family chose to emigrate and chose to enter a war zone. How is it he claims the same psychologic mantle of "survivor" Very, very different life , but same complete dissregard for the value of Arab lives. What is the moral basis for this perpetuation?

I've been to Israel and I've had settlers with New York accents say to me " one Jewish life is worth a hundred Arab lives".

Do you think that kind a belief reflects a lost sense of humanity ?

Wasn't it a rabbi who said " he who saves oen life saves the world" so , how can a people guided wrapping themselves in the ethos of Judaism act on such thoughts as " one Jewish life is equal to 100 Arab lives ?

It is the knowledge/belief that for all his privilege he would have been treated the same way as the survivors if he'd been in their time and place in history.

[jsteele]

Just letting everyone know that you can write the longest, most moving, most persuasive post about the Arab-Israeli conflict that you desire -- spend hours on it if you want -- but I'm just going to delete it from this thread. As to the last poster who in separate posts was border-line anti-Semitic, a non-Jew whose best friend is Jewish, and a 52 year old Jew, I took particular pleasure in removing your posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The power of anti-Semitism is that it brings Jews together and makes the need for Israel even stronger. I know that not everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite but it often feels that way.

Also, during times of war, people tend to band together for support. Most jews will support Israel over Hamas. It doesn't mean we support every policy or action, but jews are a family and families stick together.

This is such bullshit, PP, and you know it.

You're generalizing big time.