Who will stop Israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.

+1
It is just odd to me how so many draw a moral equivalency between the two sides when it does not even seem close.

One country developed and deploys a defensive missle system to protect it's civilian population. Offensively, it targets the rocket launching sites of its opponents. The other side targets civilian populations intentionally and as a defense, imbeds its rocket launching it's own civilian population. One side employs an "Iron Shield" to protect its citizens. The other side employs "human shields" to protect its rockets.

People want to blame Israel for the death tolls here? How about Hamas (a terrorist group bent on the destruction of Jews) stop launching rockets at Israel and move its rocket launchers away from civilian populations. It is Hamas that puts Palestinian women and children at risk.

+100 - Both posts are great.

[jsteele]

The last several posts have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But, as so often happens, the defenders of Israel are simply justifying the killing of Palestinians civilians, especially children.

The disparity in the death toll and the fact that the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have been civilians undermines nearly every claim made by the apologists for the Israelis. The Israelis claim to be targeting military targets. Hamas makes the same claim. I don't think either of them should be believed, but look at the results: Israel has killed mostly civilians including a large number of children. Hamas has killed mostly soldiers -- in fact, killing only two civilians.

The Israeli tactics are based on a willingness to accept Palestinian civilian deaths. These tactics are implemented knowing that Palestinian civilians will be killed. These are not humane tactics and there can be no justification for them. That explains why nearly every defense of Israel relies on the dehumanization of the Palestinians.

In response to the original poster of this thread, I don't know who will stop Israel. Israel has a strongly-held belief in the effectiveness of military strength. But, in recent years, the limits of military might have become more obvious. Israel failed in its last invasion of Lebanon and it appears that Gaza is going a similar way. At some point, perhaps Israel will realize that force is not working for it it and will chose a different path. In that case, Israel will stop Israel .

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:The last several posts have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But, as so often happens, the defenders of Israel are simply justifying the killing of Palestinians civilians, especially children.

The disparity in the death toll and the fact that the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have been civilians undermines nearly every claim made by the apologists for the Israelis. The Israelis claim to be targeting military targets. Hamas makes the same claim. I don't think either of them should be believed, but look at the results: Israel has killed mostly civilians including a large number of children. Hamas has killed mostly soldiers -- in fact, killing only two civilians.

The Israeli tactics are based on a willingness to accept Palestinian civilian deaths. These tactics are implemented knowing that Palestinian civilians will be killed. These are not humane tactics and there can be no justification for them. That explains why nearly every defense of Israel relies on the dehumanization of the Palestinians.

In response to the original poster of this thread, I don't know who will stop Israel. Israel has a strongly-held belief in the effectiveness of military strength. But, in recent years, the limits of military might have become more obvious. Israel failed in its last invasion of Lebanon and it appears that Gaza is going a similar way. At some point, perhaps Israel will realize that force is not working for it it and will chose a different path. In that case, Israel will stop Israel .

The answer is that no one will stop Israel. They are in an existential conflict. Their enemies want the country to cease to exist. Given those circumstances, they aren't going to be influenced by the "International Community" either by those nations friendly or unfriendly to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The last several posts have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But, as so often happens, the defenders of Israel are simply justifying the killing of Palestinians civilians, especially children.

The disparity in the death toll and the fact that the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have been civilians undermines nearly every claim made by the apologists for the Israelis. The Israelis claim to be targeting military targets. Hamas makes the same claim. I don't think either of them should be believed, but look at the results: Israel has killed mostly civilians including a large number of children. Hamas has killed mostly soldiers -- in fact, killing only two civilians.

The Israeli tactics are based on a willingness to accept Palestinian civilian deaths. These tactics are implemented knowing that Palestinian civilians will be killed. These are not humane tactics and there can be no justification for them. That explains why nearly every defense of Israel relies on the dehumanization of the Palestinians.

In response to the original poster of this thread, I don't know who will stop Israel. Israel has a strongly-held belief in the effectiveness of military strength. But, in recent years, the limits of military might have become more obvious. Israel failed in its last invasion of Lebanon and it appears that Gaza is going a similar way. At some point, perhaps Israel will realize that force is not working for it it and will chose a different path. In that case, Israel will stop Israel .

The answer is that no one will stop Israel. They are in an existential conflict. Their enemies want the country to cease to exist. Given those circumstances, they aren't going to be influenced by the "International Community" either by those nations friendly or unfriendly to them.

Israel is not God. Part of the existential conflict is that Israelis will have to decide whether they can exist without Israel. Israelis have many friends but Israel has very few, and its main patron is increasingly sick of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.

+1
It is just odd to me how so many draw a moral equivalency between the two sides when it does not even seem close.

One country developed and deploys a defensive missle system to protect it's civilian population. Offensively, it targets the rocket launching sites of its opponents. The other side targets civilian populations intentionally and as a defense, imbeds its rocket launching it's own civilian population. One side employs an "Iron Shield" to protect its citizens. The other side employs "human shields" to protect its rockets.

People want to blame Israel for the death tolls here? How about Hamas (a terrorist group bent on the destruction of Jews) stop launching rockets at Israel and move its rocket launchers away from civilian populations. It is Hamas that puts Palestinian women and children at risk.

+100 - Both posts are great.

+1000. Ask yourself:

- how many Arab and Muslim citizens of Israel are there? (Tens of thousands, maybe more). There are even Palestinian members of the Kneset.

- compare that with the number of Jews in the West Bank. ZERO. They'd be immediately kidnapped. Hamas has zero tolerance.

Zero tolerance also for peace. Hamas wants only war. They love death because they think they go straight to heaven. There can be no peace until this terrorist organization is eliminated.

[Anonymous]

^^^^^Gaza, not West Bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The last several posts have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But, as so often happens, the defenders of Israel are simply justifying the killing of Palestinians civilians, especially children.

The disparity in the death toll and the fact that the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have been civilians undermines nearly every claim made by the apologists for the Israelis. The Israelis claim to be targeting military targets. Hamas makes the same claim. I don't think either of them should be believed, but look at the results: Israel has killed mostly civilians including a large number of children. Hamas has killed mostly soldiers -- in fact, killing only two civilians.

The Israeli tactics are based on a willingness to accept Palestinian civilian deaths. These tactics are implemented knowing that Palestinian civilians will be killed. These are not humane tactics and there can be no justification for them. That explains why nearly every defense of Israel relies on the dehumanization of the Palestinians.

In response to the original poster of this thread, I don't know who will stop Israel. Israel has a strongly-held belief in the effectiveness of military strength. But, in recent years, the limits of military might have become more obvious. Israel failed in its last invasion of Lebanon and it appears that Gaza is going a similar way. At some point, perhaps Israel will realize that force is not working for it it and will chose a different path. In that case, Israel will stop Israel .

The answer is that no one will stop Israel. They are in an existential conflict. Their enemies want the country to cease to exist. Given those circumstances, they aren't going to be influenced by the "International Community" either by those nations friendly or unfriendly to them.

Israel is not God. Part of the existential conflict is that Israelis will have to decide whether they can exist without Israel. Israelis have many friends but Israel has very few, and its main patron is increasingly sick of it.

That is my point. They don't care about international opinion. A significant percentage of their population is spending their days planning what to do in case they hear an air raid siren. Think about that in terms of this country. If millions of Americans were running to bomb shelters every day, you can bet that we would not give a crap about whether or not France, Russia, and Senegal were mad that we decided to demolish our enemy. Think about this...these people get rockets launched at them, every day. So no one is going to "stop" them from trying to destroy the rockets of their enemies, not the US, not the UN, and certainly not their enemies, who intentionally put those rockets in civilian populations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.

+1
It is just odd to me how so many draw a moral equivalency between the two sides when it does not even seem close.

One country developed and deploys a defensive missle system to protect it's civilian population. Offensively, it targets the rocket launching sites of its opponents. The other side targets civilian populations intentionally and as a defense, imbeds its rocket launching it's own civilian population. One side employs an "Iron Shield" to protect its citizens. The other side employs "human shields" to protect its rockets.

People want to blame Israel for the death tolls here? How about Hamas (a terrorist group bent on the destruction of Jews) stop launching rockets at Israel and move its rocket launchers away from civilian populations. It is Hamas that puts Palestinian women and children at risk.

+100 - Both posts are great.

+1000. Ask yourself:

- how many Arab and Muslim citizens of Israel are there? (Tens of thousands, maybe more). There are even Palestinian members of the Kneset.

- compare that with the number of Jews in the West Bank. ZERO. They'd be immediately kidnapped. Hamas has zero tolerance.

Zero tolerance also for peace. Hamas wants only war. They love death because they think they go straight to heaven. There can be no peace until this terrorist organization is eliminated.

Huh??? The ignorance is astounding:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.


+1
It is just odd to me how so many draw a moral equivalency between the two sides when it does not even seem close.

One country developed and deploys a defensive missle system to protect it's civilian population. Offensively, it targets the rocket launching sites of its opponents. The other side targets civilian populations intentionally and as a defense, imbeds its rocket launching it's own civilian population. One side employs an "Iron Shield" to protect its citizens. The other side employs "human shields" to protect its rockets.

People want to blame Israel for the death tolls here? How about Hamas (a terrorist group bent on the destruction of Jews) stop launching rockets at Israel and move its rocket launchers away from civilian populations. It is Hamas that puts Palestinian women and children at risk.

+1

[Anonymous]

I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.

+1

[Anonymous]

I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.


+1
It is just odd to me how so many draw a moral equivalency between the two sides when it does not even seem close.

One country developed and deploys a defensive missle system to protect it's civilian population. Offensively, it targets the rocket launching sites of its opponents. The other side targets civilian populations intentionally and as a defense, imbeds its rocket launching it's own civilian population. One side employs an "Iron Shield" to protect its citizens. The other side employs "human shields" to protect its rockets.

People want to blame Israel for the death tolls here? How about Hamas (a terrorist group bent on the destruction of Jews) stop launching rockets at Israel and move its rocket launchers away from civilian populations. It is Hamas that puts Palestinian women and children at risk.


+100 - Both posts are great.


+1000. Ask yourself:

- how many Arab and Muslim citizens of Israel are there? (Tens of thousands, maybe more). There are even Palestinian members of the Kneset.

- compare that with the number of Jews in the West Bank. ZERO. They'd be immediately kidnapped. Hamas has zero tolerance.

Zero tolerance also for peace. Hamas wants only war. They love death because they think they go straight to heaven. There can be no peace until this terrorist organization is eliminated.

Israel is treatment of women is a joke.

While we've been distracted by alarmism over newly elected Islamist leaders enforcing hijabs and bikini bans in the Arab world, Israel is already embroiled in attempts to rein in this unruly matter of female "immodesty".

Last week, Israel's Haaretz newspaper reported on businesses in the southern town of Sderot signing up to a "dignified" dress code – whereby female employees must be "modestly" clothed. So far 20 stores have adopted this long-sleeves directive, initiated by a religious group which says it did not actively threaten to boycott non-signatory shops – but which, nonetheless, has considerable buying power. Not surprisingly, the women subjected to this new code have described it as religious coercion.

This is on top of some other instances of an apparent increase in ultra-religious modesty decrees. There have been recent religious pronouncements that men should walk out of army ceremonies where women are singing (immodestly, of course); along with attempts to erase women's faces from billboard advertising and increased attempts to impose gender-segregated queuing in stores.

Last week, religiously imposed gender segregation of buses prompted a stand-off, as a female passenger simply refused to move to the back – despite requests to do so from the bus driver and a police officer called in to sort out the dispute. Dozens of public bus lines used by Israel's ultra-Orthodox (or Haredi) sector have been gender-segregated for years. Israel's supreme court tried to reverse this practice a year ago, but balked at actually banning the "women at the back" policy – making it more a voluntary issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/dec/23/israel-treatment-women-democracy

Your post is mostly propaganda and lies. Israel is disgusting vile country. You people will kill your own to continue killing.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:^^^^^Gaza, not West Bank.

There were Jews in Gaza prior to disengagement. The Israeli government forced them to move. I am willing to bet that there are Jews among the international aid community in Gaza. Also, don't fool yourself into believing that Arab citizens of Israel have anything close to equal rights.

[Anonymous]

Nobody will stop Israel. God loves the Jews . The United States is not even a factor in the battle of armeggedon that will take place in Israel. The bible is playing out right before our eyes and it is no coincidence that a postage stamp sized peice of land made up of a non expansionalist tribe of Gods children are at ground zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The last several posts have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But, as so often happens, the defenders of Israel are simply justifying the killing of Palestinians civilians, especially children.

The disparity in the death toll and the fact that the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have been civilians undermines nearly every claim made by the apologists for the Israelis. The Israelis claim to be targeting military targets. Hamas makes the same claim. I don't think either of them should be believed, but look at the results: Israel has killed mostly civilians including a large number of children. Hamas has killed mostly soldiers -- in fact, killing only two civilians.

The Israeli tactics are based on a willingness to accept Palestinian civilian deaths. These tactics are implemented knowing that Palestinian civilians will be killed. These are not humane tactics and there can be no justification for them. That explains why nearly every defense of Israel relies on the dehumanization of the Palestinians.

In response to the original poster of this thread, I don't know who will stop Israel. Israel has a strongly-held belief in the effectiveness of military strength. But, in recent years, the limits of military might have become more obvious. Israel failed in its last invasion of Lebanon and it appears that Gaza is going a similar way. At some point, perhaps Israel will realize that force is not working for it it and will chose a different path. In that case, Israel will stop Israel .

The answer is that no one will stop Israel. They are in an existential conflict. Their enemies want the country to cease to exist. Given those circumstances, they aren't going to be influenced by the "International Community" either by those nations friendly or unfriendly to them.

Israel is not God. Part of the existential conflict is that Israelis will have to decide whether they can exist without Israel. Israelis have many friends but Israel has very few, and its main patron is increasingly sick of it.

That is my point. They don't care about international opinion. A significant percentage of their population is spending their days planning what to do in case they hear an air raid siren. Think about that in terms of this country. If millions of Americans were running to bomb shelters every day, you can bet that we would not give a crap about whether or not France, Russia, and Senegal were mad that we decided to demolish our enemy. Think about this...these people get rockets launched at them, every day. So no one is going to "stop" them from trying to destroy the rockets of their enemies, not the US, not the UN, and certainly not their enemies, who intentionally put those rockets in civilian populations.

The Hamas rockets are a nuisance that inflict virtually no casualties, but they are an unpleasant reminder to Israel that the Palestinians are not happy with their treatment at the hands of Israel. So they bomb the daylights out of Gaza and make life hell for the inhabitants of the West Bank, at the same time that most Israelis go about their lives largely undisturbed. They claim not to care about international opinion, but some day there may be internationally sanctioned air strikes on Israel just like there were on Belgrade when Serbia was hell-bent on destroying Kosovo. The rest of the world can isolate Israel, which exists at the pleasure of the Americans, and wipe it off the map if it does not change its ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it wholly amusing that Americans, especially women, are supporting a terrorist group in a part of the world where women are regarded as second class citizens, and little children are routinely raped and sold off as child brides. Let's not even start on honor killings.

While I am never happy about casualties of war, the big picture to me, is much more frightening. So many Middle-Easterners here, who have lived the brutality of their countries, see the benefit of Israel's free society and have expressed grave concerns for her survival.

In typical progressive fashion, it's all about 'the feels', and not about logic.

Ladies, would you like to live in Israel or in Middle-Eastern countries that allow you no freedoms you enjoy today? How about your daughters? Do you consider honor killings and child rapes, sanctioned by the government, appealing?

As for those 'brutal Israelis', a few metro bombings, and suicide bombers in your grocery stores, etc would wake you up real fast, especially if it all came from the same people. You would not feel so benevolent anymore, if a simple trip to Giant could easily result in your death.

There is a reason why Israeli teachers carry weapons; it has become a necessity. If you think Israelis consistently and deliberately target children, you need to do a lot more reading.

+1
It is just odd to me how so many draw a moral equivalency between the two sides when it does not even seem close.

One country developed and deploys a defensive missle system to protect it's civilian population. Offensively, it targets the rocket launching sites of its opponents. The other side targets civilian populations intentionally and as a defense, imbeds its rocket launching it's own civilian population. One side employs an "Iron Shield" to protect its citizens. The other side employs "human shields" to protect its rockets.

People want to blame Israel for the death tolls here? How about Hamas (a terrorist group bent on the destruction of Jews) stop launching rockets at Israel and move its rocket launchers away from civilian populations. It is Hamas that puts Palestinian women and children at risk.

+100 - Both posts are great.

+1000. Ask yourself:

- how many Arab and Muslim citizens of Israel are there? (Tens of thousands, maybe more). There are even Palestinian members of the Kneset.

- compare that with the number of Jews in the West Bank. ZERO. They'd be immediately kidnapped. Hamas has zero tolerance.

Zero tolerance also for peace. Hamas wants only war. They love death because they think they go straight to heaven. There can be no peace until this terrorist organization is eliminated.

Silly stuff. Israeli Jews obsess the birthrate of the Israeli Arabs, but for now Arab participation in Israeli politics is limited, and it certainly does nothing for those in Gaza or the West Bank affected by Israeli policies, harassment or illegal settlements. It amazes me how the Pro-Israel crowd simply ignores the settlements, which give lie to the notion that Israel is a small country that only wants peace, etc. It is systematically expanding its reach and kicking Palestinians off their native lands. If this involved any group other than the Jews, there already would have been international interventions to stop this. So the question becomes at what point does the U.N. and the international community force Israel to stop?