Seeking educational psychologist who specializes in boys and their learning differences

[Anonymous]

OP, I posted at 17:31 and I am highly sympathetic to you. But I would say that it's most helpful to your son if you keep an open mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is lecturing "army style" helpful for this type of kid. I'm so sick of this dinosaur way of thinking. I see this everywhere my kids go outside of school. Sounds like every damn sports dad that I know.

OP here.

I am looking for a psychologist because I need someone to run interference with the "educational specialist psychiatrist pharma industrial complex.". A closed system has emerged where one is pressured by so-called education specialists at schools into expensive neuropsych tests of questionable value for the slightest deviation from the norm. I feel like an unlettered inmate trying explain in a pencil written brief, without knowing the legal jargon, that they've got the wrong person.

My kid is doing fine thank you very much. He has crappy handwriting but to get the "accommodation" of a keyboard or more time for him to scrawl his hieroglyphics, we need an "assessment.". And his locker, horrors, is a mess and he could give a damn, as he explained in slightly nicer language to his teacher, and he often forgets his homework. Apparently this means he may have "executive" issues. What a joke.

I need a mediator who agrees with me that the current way in which developmentally appropriate male behavior is pathologized is a moral tragedy but who can say so more nicely, in the appropriate edu-gibberish and make practical suggestions in a way that does not piss off the school.

Damn right I have an opinion and am looking for someone who agrees with me. If I have learned one thing as a parent it is trust your,instincts and take the conventional wisdom with a dump,truck of salt.

OP--let me get this straight, you want an accommodation for a keyboard but you don't want to go through a school assessment to check for possible executive functioning issues. Instead you want an independent psychologist to tell the school that your kid doesn't have any executive functioning issues but is just a boy's boy and cannot keep a locker clean or be accountable for his school work. Yet can't write legibly and needs a keyboard.

Get a clue and get your head out of your ass. If you want any kind of accommodation, you need to let the school assess for possible need. Duh.

Also, "castration" PP go wander back to your own reservation--my guess is ranting against Obama care on the Political Forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I posted at 17:31 and I am highly sympathetic to you. But I would say that it's most helpful to your son if you keep an open mind.

OP here. I am trying on the open mind, rant notwithstanding. But after we completed our expensive neuropsych test at a well known psychiatrist in Silver Spring, the test gave us little practical information. The testing psychiatrist then said, if I diagnose your kid as ADHD, even though he doesn't really seem to be really, but fits the diluted new DCM standard, your insurance company will reimburse you for the test. So the doctor wrote that into eval and now we hear from the school constant veiled pressure to try meds. It is appalling. The ethical implications are troubling not,least that we acquiesced to this at the time. But it definitely undermined our confidence in,the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is lecturing "army style" helpful for this type of kid. I'm so sick of this dinosaur way of thinking. I see this everywhere my kids go outside of school. Sounds like every damn sports dad that I know.

One needs a $3k "assessment" for the school to apply common sense? What a country. What works, works. Give the kid a,keyboard, fingerpaint, clay tablets. Be an actual teacher, for goodness sakes.


OP here.

I am looking for a psychologist because I need someone to run interference with the "educational specialist psychiatrist pharma industrial complex.". A closed system has emerged where one is pressured by so-called education specialists at schools into expensive neuropsych tests of questionable value for the slightest deviation from the norm. I feel like an unlettered inmate trying explain in a pencil written brief, without knowing the legal jargon, that they've got the wrong person.

My kid is doing fine thank you very much. He has crappy handwriting but to get the "accommodation" of a keyboard or more time for him to scrawl his hieroglyphics, we need an "assessment.". And his locker, horrors, is a mess and he could give a damn, as he explained in slightly nicer language to his teacher, and he often forgets his homework. Apparently this means he may have "executive" issues. What a joke.

I need a mediator who agrees with me that the current way in which developmentally appropriate male behavior is pathologized is a moral tragedy but who can say so more nicely, in the appropriate edu-gibberish and make practical suggestions in a way that does not piss off the school.

Damn right I have an opinion and am looking for someone who agrees with me. If I have learned one thing as a parent it is trust your,instincts and take the conventional wisdom with a dump,truck of salt.

OP--let me get this straight, you want an accommodation for a keyboard but you don't want to go through a school assessment to check for possible executive functioning issues. Instead you want an independent psychologist to tell the school that your kid doesn't have any executive functioning issues but is just a boy's boy and cannot keep a locker clean or be accountable for his school work. Yet can't write legibly and needs a keyboard.

Get a clue and get your head out of your ass. If you want any kind of accommodation, you need to let the school assess for possible need. Duh.

Also, "castration" PP go wander back to your own reservation--my guess is ranting against Obama care on the Political Forum.

[Anonymous]

One needs a $3k "assessment" for the school to apply common sense? What a country. What works, works. Give the kid a,keyboard, fingerpaint, clay tablets. Be an actual teacher, for goodness sakes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One needs a $3k "assessment" for the school to apply common sense? What a country. What works, works. Give the kid a,keyboard, fingerpaint, clay tablets. Be an actual teacher, for goodness sakes

You can always homeschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I'm with you OP. The school system castrates boys who aren't good drones and organized secretaries. Occasionally you get a teacher who doesn't believe in drugging boys with too much energy. Instead he/she will give them more exercise, urge them to eat healthy whole foods, lecture them army style about expectations, give corrective feedback as needed and give plenty of positive reinforcement for all the good things he/she sees. It works in most cases. Amazing. You'd think it would catch on. Even more amazing this style probably works well for most girls too.

Yes, I know medication can work wonders for some kids, but even Keith Conners, ADHD expert, is appalled at how many kids are being drugged. Heck even the guy who created Adderall is all WTF?

We've gone from "feminized" to "good drones and organized secretaries." (apparently girls thrive in this immasculating system because they make excellent secretaries). Real men however, will not be "castrated" and benefit from "army style lecturing and expectations." I recommend you (dare I guess?) men crawl back to your caves and emerge when you are emotionally prepared to live in the 21st century.

[Anonymous]

Or at least don't emerge until after you've taken your Adderal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I posted at 17:31 and I am highly sympathetic to you. But I would say that it's most helpful to your son if you keep an open mind.

+1

[Anonymous]

OP, you want Leonard Sax. http://www.leonardsax.com
He used to practice in MoCo, so he understands this area very well. His books all draw his case studies from his time here. Looks like he has moved to the Philadelphia area, but if you don't want to make the trip they can probably refer you to someone like minded here.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I have nothing to offer, except this is a very interesting thread/conversation. Mom of an ADHD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I posted at 17:31 and I am highly sympathetic to you. But I would say that it's most helpful to your son if you keep an open mind.

OP here. I am trying on the open mind, rant notwithstanding. But after we completed our expensive neuropsych test at a well known psychiatrist in Silver Spring, the test gave us little practical information. The testing psychiatrist then said, if I diagnose your kid as ADHD, even though he doesn't really seem to be really, but fits the diluted new DCM standard, your insurance company will reimburse you for the test. So the doctor wrote that into eval and now we hear from the school constant veiled pressure to try meds. It is appalling. The ethical implications are troubling not,least that we acquiesced to this at the time. But it definitely undermined our confidence in,the system.

OP, it doesn't sound like you need a therapist. If you have your ticket punched as it were from a formal assessment and the school is willing to give you the accommodation you need, who cares if they pressure you to medicate. Yes, unethical. Ignore them. Finding an independent therapist isn't going to change any response you get from the school and really is just to make you feel better.

Look at the big picture: does your kid needs help? Has he learned executive skills (and this doesn't mean secretarial) to meet academic challenges of school? If not, he simply may need a tutor. Stop focusing on trying to prove a point that in the end doesn't matter and look at what skills your kid needs.

[Anonymous]

My son has been seeing a psychologist for years even though there isn't really anything wrong with him. He hates school, sitting still, listening to lectures, etc.

So.... September - November are an exercise in tolerance. By Spring, he is ready to jump off the ledge so he goes to psychologist to decompress and vent about how much he hates school. It is sort of like being in a bad marriage but you can't get a divorce so you go to the therapist and vent and then go back into the war zone.

We are moving him to a private school that is project based learning, light on lecture, teachers trained in mild learning disabilities. (he is mildly dyslexic)

Don't know if it will work but we will try. Homeschooling is the next step.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are looking for a referral for an educational psychologist, in DC or MD, who has real expertise in boys and their developmental differences. Books such as "Raising Cain" and "The Minds of Boys" have really resonated with us. Our 10-year old son suffers from shpilkes (ants in pants) and apparently this is no longer considered socially acceptable. We need someone to help us navigate/play zone defense in the feminized halls of American elementary school education.

Also, we are in the "no drugs" camp so prefer someone who is like-minded.

We would be grateful for any recommendations.

OP, as the mom of an ADD Inattentive boy with a messy desk and crappy handwriting, I hear what you're saying about pathologizing deficits. I would encourage you to learn about the IEP/504 process. Atlhough you doubtless feel pressured by the school, there are useful accommodations to be had (like extra time, access to keyboard for writing, and help with organization) even if you don't agree that the deficits justify a "diagnosis." Looking ahead long-term, it may be difficult for a child with "shpilkes" to demonstrate mastery of skills without the extra time for tests. Sometimes this can result in downwardly spiraling self-esteem because the child can see a mismatch between what he/she knows he knows and what he/she can see all other kids do (which is then pathologized as "emotional disorder" like "anxiety" or "depression".) The way I look at it, there are a wide variety of skills that used to be part of the "curriculum" -- handwriting, spelling, and organizational or study skills and social skills -- that are no longer officially "taught" skills but only accessible thru the special ed process. IMO, this is stupid, but it is what it is. Parents without financial means often go thru the special ed process to access this (rather weak) instruction; those with means hire private tutors or coaches to provide instruction outside of school. I think that this is increasingly becoming the case as the school curriculum places more and more developmentally inappropriate expectations on our kids. (Like writing a BCR in 2nd grade. )

If money is an issue, and you are being pressured by the school to get assessment, do you know that the school must provide assessment if you ask? Write a letter saying that you are concerned your child might have attention issues and need a 504 or IEP and request assessment. Yes, you may disagree with the school's assessment, but you can then request an Independent Educational Evaluation, for which the school system must pay.

Of course, if your child isn't experiencing a negative impact from the disjuncture between school expectations and ability, then there may be no reason for extra support.

Also, you cannot be required by the school to medicate your child. And, the school cannot require medication as a condition of receiving special instruction, services or accommodations. Period. FWIW, the school has never pressured us to medicate, although I understand others may have different experiences. We have objections to ADD medications, because they are mostly excluded by our family medical history.

Please consider how you are go to "play defense". One way to go is to find an educational psychologist to say there is no disorder. But, if you say that, then you risk getting NO support on implementing "practical suggestions". Another way to play defense is to accept an "ADHD diagnosis" (if one is justified by the DSM criteria and subjective and objective testing) and demand appropriate "accommodations". For example, on a 504 plan, it may be written that a child is NOT allowed to have recess taken away, or is allowed to get up and walk around during class or work at a standing table or gets a reminder from a teacher to write down homework or the teacher explicitly asks for completed homework. These are what I would view as "practical suggestions" and that these are now considered "accommodations" is a little bit silly, and reinforces the "pathologizing" that schools do, but if it gets you something that is helpful, IMO, it may be worth considering. FWIW, we have had an explicit discussion with our 10 y.o. DC about what ADHD is thought to be and how unclear the diagnosis, cause and treatment are and what that means for his self-identity. He got it.

To others who object to the characterization of "feminization" of elementary school, I understand the use of the word even as it applies to female students. Schools, IMO, are "feminized" according to a very narrow, inflexible vision of what it means to be "female" and that hurts both male and female students. But, sadly, fixing that is decades long project. We have come some way with Title IX, but the road ahead is still long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are looking for a referral for an educational psychologist, in DC or MD, who has real expertise in boys and their developmental differences. Books such as "Raising Cain" and "The Minds of Boys" have really resonated with us. Our 10-year old son suffers from shpilkes (ants in pants) and apparently this is no longer considered socially acceptable. We need someone to help us navigate/play zone defense in the feminized halls of American elementary school education.

Also, we are in the "no drugs" camp so prefer someone who is like-minded.

We would be grateful for any recommendations.

OP, as the mom of an ADD Inattentive boy with a messy desk and crappy handwriting, I hear what you're saying about pathologizing deficits. I would encourage you to learn about the IEP/504 process. Atlhough you doubtless feel pressured by the school, there are useful accommodations to be had (like extra time, access to keyboard for writing, and help with organization) even if you don't agree that the deficits justify a "diagnosis." Looking ahead long-term, it may be difficult for a child with "shpilkes" to demonstrate mastery of skills without the extra time for tests. Sometimes this can result in downwardly spiraling self-esteem because the child can see a mismatch between what he/she knows he knows and what he/she can see all other kids do (which is then pathologized as "emotional disorder" like "anxiety" or "depression".) The way I look at it, there are a wide variety of skills that used to be part of the "curriculum" -- handwriting, spelling, and organizational or study skills and social skills -- that are no longer officially "taught" skills but only accessible thru the special ed process. IMO, this is stupid, but it is what it is. Parents without financial means often go thru the special ed process to access this (rather weak) instruction; those with means hire private tutors or coaches to provide instruction outside of school. I think that this is increasingly becoming the case as the school curriculum places more and more developmentally inappropriate expectations on our kids. (Like writing a BCR in 2nd grade. )]

OP here. Thank you for the great answer, as well as others for their constructive responses. I agree with you profoundly, across the board (your description of the downward spiral is particularly apt).

We are willing to go along with the kabuki show of "diagnosis" as you suggest, much as it sticks in the throat. We are just looking for someone who has a similar skepticism about the whole way these developmental differences are being handled but who can interface with the school and use the "magic words" so our son can get what he needs. Many of the non-drug interventions the school has rolled out have been inappropriate because they are based on the same distorted expectations (are we really going to get seriatim nasty notes because his locker is a mess? He has no problem finding things).

The problem we have found so far is that most educational psychologists make their living from the current system (with all its terrible ethical distortions and make-believe pathologies) and -- perhaps unwittingly -- are not honest brokers. Our goal is to construct a developmentally appropriate strategy for our son, going forward, in collaboration with someone who actually knows something about boys and their developmental pecadillos (and I realize this is not a problem limited to boys). We can then put it into whatever terminology makes the school happy and proceed. But first we need some help with an appropriate strategy.