College educational consultants recommending below-par schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

So true. USC in my home state was once a joke = University of Spoiled Children. Now supposedly a hot SLAC. My own college is so selective I probably couldn't get in it today. Chapman College in Orange County, CA? Who would have thunk?

USC is hot and selective, but it's not an SLAC, it's a university.

USC is one of, if not THE, largest private colleges in the world. Something like 40,000 students (including grad). It is not an SLAC in any sense of the word. The school is a favorite for those who can't get into the comparable (but much less expensive) large state schools including UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin and Penn State. It is much like these schools than any SLAC or even mid-size private school.

What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Lots of misinformation in this thread.

In terms of undergrad enrollment, USC is actually quite a bit smaller than these other schools, with 18k undergrads, compared with 30k at Wisconsin, UCLA, and Michigan, and 40k at penn state.

If you are OOS for Michigan or UCLA, tuition is not "much less expensive" than USC, but rather quite comparable.

USC's stats are as good or better than those ofWisconsin, Penn State, Michigan, and UCLA.

USC
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 620-720
Middle 50% SAT math-- 660-760
4 year graduation rate-- 74%

Michigan
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 620-720
Middle 50% SAT math-- 660-760
4 year graduation rate-- 76%

UCLA
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 560-680
Middle 50% SAT math-- 600-760
4 year graduation rate-- 71%

Wisconsin
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 530-650
Middle 50% SAT math-- 630-750
4 year graduation rate-- 53%

Penn State
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 530-630
Middle 50% SAT math-- 560-670
4 year graduation rate-- 65%

Seriously people, if you haven't looked at colleges in the last 5 or so years, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

As for the suspect college admissions consultant, I'd want to know the kid's stats and the "sub par" schools that were recommended, and why they were recommended. Were these recommended as safeties or matches? Did the kid want small schools, so less expensive public options weren't readily available? Did the family say that they could be full pay anywhere so weren't concerned about tuition? Did the family say they needed merit or financial aid, so the consultant was recommending "crazy expensive" schools that are actually very generous with aid for a student with these stats? Without this info, it is impossible to judge the consultant's performance.

[Anonymous]

What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

[Anonymous]

What does it mean to "boomerang" home? 25 years ago, when I graduated from UVA, I moved back home without a job. I spent July and August of that year backpacking around Europe (on my own dime). In September, I moved in with the parents of a college friend who lived closer to the city (and jobs) than my parents did. This friend, a phi beta kappa at UVA, had also "boomeranged" home without a job. I worked as a receptionist for 6 months before getting a job as a research assistant at a consulting firm (almost a year after graduating). My friend worked as a paralegal. After a few months with her parents, we found a 2 BR apartment in the city, which we shared with another friend. (Yep, two of us shared a BR.) A few years later, we all went to grad/law/business school, paying our own ways. Today, we are all gainfully employed members of the 5-10 percent.

Kids who come home from college and waitress or do temp work or whathaveyou during down times in the economy are nothing new, and not necessarily a crisis-- or for that matter, a sign that they went to a subpar college or performed poorly there. I actually expect that my kids will move back home after college while they look for jobs, save up for first and last month rent on an apartment, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

With the exception of US News (which favors expensive private schools) Wisconsin is generally ranked higher than USC, same with Michigan and sometimes PSU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

With the exception of US News (which favors expensive private schools) Wisconsin is generally ranked higher than USC, same with Michigan and sometimes PSU.

Ranked higher by whom? Based on what

I have no dog in this fight as I have no ties to USC and wouldn't send my child there (nor would I send him to UCLA or Michigan--all too pricey for me). I just don't believe there is any real advantage to UCLA or Michigan over USC for an out-of-state student, and especially without knowing the specific financial package for the student in question.

As for USNWR, I also have no particular reverence for them, but will note that there are 12 public universities along with USC that they rank at or higher than Wisconsin. I'm not casting aspersions on Wisconsin, it is a fine school. But on objective measures--test scores and graduation rates--it ranks decidedly lower.

20. Berkeley
23. Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, USC, UVA
24. Wake Forest
28. Tufts, Michigan
30. UNC
31. BC
32. Brandeis, W&M, NYU, Rochester
36. GA Tech
37. Case Western, Penn State
39. UC Davis, UCSD
41. BU, Lehigh, RPI, UCSB, Illinois, Wisconsin

[Anonymous]

OP,

Do you know your friend's child's test scores? Were they surprisingly low? Anyway, it amazes me that you know so much about this consultancy. I would not tell my best friend about any fees I paid a consultant, college or otherwise. Further, the admissions landscape has changed considerably; whatever you know from you experience no longer applies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

With the exception of US News (which favors expensive private schools) Wisconsin is generally ranked higher than USC, same with Michigan and sometimes PSU.

Ranked higher by whom? Based on what

I have no dog in this fight as I have no ties to USC and wouldn't send my child there (nor would I send him to UCLA or Michigan--all too pricey for me). I just don't believe there is any real advantage to UCLA or Michigan over USC for an out-of-state student, and especially without knowing the specific financial package for the student in question.

As for USNWR, I also have no particular reverence for them, but will note that there are 12 public universities along with USC that they rank at or higher than Wisconsin. I'm not casting aspersions on Wisconsin, it is a fine school. But on objective measures--test scores and graduation rates--it ranks decidedly lower.

20. Berkeley
23. Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, USC, UVA
24. Wake Forest
28. Tufts, Michigan
30. UNC
31. BC
32. Brandeis, W&M, NYU, Rochester
36. GA Tech
37. Case Western, Penn State
39. UC Davis, UCSD
41. BU, Lehigh, RPI, UCSB, Illinois, Wisconsin

Wisconsin is #30 in the World
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking

US News is a joke outside the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

With the exception of US News (which favors expensive private schools) Wisconsin is generally ranked higher than USC, same with Michigan and sometimes PSU.

Ranked higher by whom? Based on what

I have no dog in this fight as I have no ties to USC and wouldn't send my child there (nor would I send him to UCLA or Michigan--all too pricey for me). I just don't believe there is any real advantage to UCLA or Michigan over USC for an out-of-state student, and especially without knowing the specific financial package for the student in question.

As for USNWR, I also have no particular reverence for them, but will note that there are 12 public universities along with USC that they rank at or higher than Wisconsin. I'm not casting aspersions on Wisconsin, it is a fine school. But on objective measures--test scores and graduation rates--it ranks decidedly lower.

20. Berkeley
23. Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, USC, UVA
24. Wake Forest
28. Tufts, Michigan
30. UNC
31. BC
32. Brandeis, W&M, NYU, Rochester
36. GA Tech
37. Case Western, Penn State
39. UC Davis, UCSD
41. BU, Lehigh, RPI, UCSB, Illinois, Wisconsin

Wisconsin is #30 in the World
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking

US News is a joke outside the US

Very weird ranking. I want to like it because the school my kid will be attending next year is top 20 but I am not sure I believe it.

[Anonymous]

Weird? Hmm .. this is the most normal looking ranking I've seen - with the exception of the high ranking of the University of Washington. I have an international bias though since I've spent a lot of time abroad. These seem to be the schools people know around the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

With the exception of US News (which favors expensive private schools) Wisconsin is generally ranked higher than USC, same with Michigan and sometimes PSU.

Ranked higher by whom? Based on what

I have no dog in this fight as I have no ties to USC and wouldn't send my child there (nor would I send him to UCLA or Michigan--all too pricey for me). I just don't believe there is any real advantage to UCLA or Michigan over USC for an out-of-state student, and especially without knowing the specific financial package for the student in question.

As for USNWR, I also have no particular reverence for them, but will note that there are 12 public universities along with USC that they rank at or higher than Wisconsin. I'm not casting aspersions on Wisconsin, it is a fine school. But on objective measures--test scores and graduation rates--it ranks decidedly lower.

20. Berkeley
23. Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, USC, UVA
24. Wake Forest
28. Tufts, Michigan
30. UNC
31. BC
32. Brandeis, W&M, NYU, Rochester
36. GA Tech
37. Case Western, Penn State
39. UC Davis, UCSD
41. BU, Lehigh, RPI, UCSB, Illinois, Wisconsin

Wisconsin is #30 in the World
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking

US News is a joke outside the US

Very weird ranking. I want to like it because the school my kid will be attending next year is top 20 but I am not sure I believe it.

I'll also defend my alma mater (Wisconsin) - many of us don't graduate in 4 years because we 1) love it and 2) graduate with triple majors. I stayed for an extra summer to knock out a few extra classes that gave me another major. Also, summer in Madison was amazing. Oddly, I have a ton of DC friends who also went to UW, and are doing really interesting things (I didn't know them in college). Don't count out WI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What "misinformation?" The stats presented above pretty much make the point that USC is comparable to the big state schools except when it comes to tuition

USC 46K
Michigan 40K
UCLA (or Cal) 36K
Penn State 30K
Wisconsin 26K

USC looks much more like a more expensive state school than a SLAC.

Stats for USC are quite a bit better than for Penn State or Wisconsin. Importantly, the chances of a student getting financial assistance from USC are actually quite a bit higher than for an OOS student at any of those schools, so the net price often will be the same or lower. Also, remember that in some states, additional fees pad the cost of attendance (it is a way to keep "tuition" down, smh), so you have to look at the entire COA, not just tuition.

Yes, they particularly offer a lot of merit dollars to National Merit Finalists. My child had high PSAT scores and we get a lot of mail from USC telling us about these scholarships. I suspect it's a bit far away for us, but if my child ends up being found eligible it is sure tempting.

[Anonymous]

8:52, where are you pulling your stats from. I'm not challenging them . . . just want to know source for own purposes. Thanks

[Anonymous]

Most schools give scholarships to National Merit Semifinalists provided you indicate that that particular school is your "first choice" school.
http://www.finaid.umich.edu/Home/TypesofAid/ScholarshipsandGrants/OFAScholarshipListing.aspx

[Anonymous]

Yes, they particularly offer a lot of merit dollars to National Merit Finalists. My child had high PSAT scores and we get a lot of mail from USC telling us about these scholarships. I suspect it's a bit far away for us, but if my child ends up being found eligible it is sure tempting.

Anonymous wrote:Most schools give scholarships to National Merit Semifinalists provided you indicate that that particular school is your "first choice" school.
http://www.finaid.umich.edu/Home/TypesofAid/ScholarshipsandGrants/OFAScholarshipListing.aspx

Actually, many schools give no money at all for National Merit. Examples off the top of my head include the Ivy League schools and UVa. Many other schools offer only token amounts of a couple or a few thousand (not much compared to a $55-60,000 tuition bill). The most generous for National Merit are schools like USC, Oklahoma, Alabama, and a lot of smaller LACs.
(Could not find a listing for National Merit Scholars in your link, but I'm in a hurry right now and didn't have time to go through the entire thing.)