College educational consultants recommending below-par schools

[Anonymous]

I did not go to an Ivy but rather a State school with a strong program in my field, I was happy with my education and especially with the tuition since I had to pay my own way.

I know friends who have hired college educational consultants and am consistently surprised at the schools I would consider below par, what I'm referring to is private, out of state schools that are very expensive. A few are in my home state and they were the schools that locals would go to if they did not have the grades to get into a "good" state or private university. They get reasons like smaller school, better education experience, which I get... but if the school is nothing special, i.e. not recognized as being the leader in a particular major the student is interested, why push it on the parents?

My friend's kids perform at the top of their classes and have excellent grades and I'm often shocked by the school recommendations. Granted not everyone is going to go to or get into an Ivy, but why hire someone to recommend some no name, expensive, out of state school?

One child recently graduated and he boomeranged right home, can't get a job and can't get into a decent master's program because the school is just not well recognized.

What am I missing about here? Why hire a college consultant?

[Anonymous]

Why would you hire a college consultant to recommend an Ivy or your state flagship? Frankly if you're not smart enough to figure out that those schools exist and are well regarded, you probably won't get in.

A consultant does their best work when the goal is a school that fits a very specific profile. Let's say, for example, that you have student with some learning issues who needs a small school with learning consultants on staff, no foreign language requirement, and a major in animal behavior. Or your child, whose goal is to be an FBI agent, wants a program where he can earn an Accounting degree with a minor in Arabic and enough room in the schedule to study abroad for a semester, oh, and it would help a lot if the school paid a lot of attention to standardized test scores because that's your child's strength. The state schools may not not have the specific program or constellation of factors you need or want, and you'll need someone who can think outside the box and is familiar with a large number of programs.

As far as the child boomeranging "because" of the school, look around you, there are kids boomeranging home from every kind of school right now.

[Anonymous]

What schools are you talking about OP?

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of SLACs that some people consider "no name" that provide excellent educations and are highly competitive, and might make sense for someone at the top of their class. Swarthmore, Reed, Middlebury, Pomona, Oberlin, Carlton, and so on and so forth are all excellent schools for undergrad that lack the name recognition of Harvard but are known for preparing people exceptionally well for graduate school. Then there are other schools that are non-ivy schools like, say, Wash U where students who apply to ivies often apply that are also highly competitive but lack name recognition of Harvard.

A lot of parents overestimate their kids chances at places like Harvard and discount the value of other colleges (particularly the many, many excellent small private colleges), and sometimes what college consultants both reign in reality and suggest other schools that would be a good fit. Even if you are at the top of your class, it is never a good idea to hedge your bets on only applying to schools with a ~10% or less acceptance rate. Given the amount of bashing that goes on on this board for any college that isn't flagship state school or Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, or MIT, I can see why a college consultant might be helpful for many families. Also just because a school might have been seen as mediocre 20 years ago does not mean that its reputation hasn't changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would you hire a college consultant to recommend an Ivy or your state flagship? Frankly if you're not smart enough to figure out that those schools exist and are well regarded, you probably won't get in.

A consultant does their best work when the goal is a school that fits a very specific profile. Let's say, for example, that you have student with some learning issues who needs a small school with learning consultants on staff, no foreign language requirement, and a major in animal behavior. Or your child, whose goal is to be an FBI agent, wants a program where he can earn an Accounting degree with a minor in Arabic and enough room in the schedule to study abroad for a semester, oh, and it would help a lot if the school paid a lot of attention to standardized test scores because that's your child's strength. The state schools may not not have the specific program or constellation of factors you need or want, and you'll need someone who can think outside the box and is familiar with a large number of programs.

As far as the child boomeranging "because" of the school, look around you, there are kids boomeranging home from every kind of school right now.

I was one of them back in the day, but got it together and went on for an MBA at a well thought of school. Some kids are not cut out for dorm life and the social pressures inherent at large universities. I was one of them.

[Anonymous]

College consultants/HS counselors are often risk aversive.

Their job is easier if you are happy with less.

[Anonymous]

I think it is fair to assume that most college consultants want the best for their clients. Parents sometimes aren't able to be so objective regarding their children's likely admission. College has gotten much harder to get into, and college consultants know that. Also, people hire them for many reasons other than suggesting a list of schools.

[Anonymous]

I think it is fair to assume that most college consultants want the best for their clients. Parents sometimes aren't able to be so objective regarding their children's likely admission. College has gotten much harder to get into, and college consultants know that. Also, people hire them for many reasons other than suggesting a list of schools.

[Anonymous]

A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

Thank you! I think this helps bridge the disparity between my out of date knowledge and the recommendations.

I will say I think the college counselor that my best friend hired WAS giving bad advice, I helped my friend research the schools she recommended and there was no merit in her suggestions. They paid the consultant $5000 up front and the only thing commonality was that they paid for trips for the consultant to visit with her family.

I understand the phenomenon of the "liberal arts bubble" but the kids that I know did not have specific interests, they were more "undecided" and the school tuition's were just crazy high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

So true. USC in my home state was once a joke = University of Spoiled Children. Now supposedly a hot SLAC. My own college is so selective I probably couldn't get in it today. Chapman College in Orange County, CA? Who would have thunk?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

So true. USC in my home state was once a joke = University of Spoiled Children. Now supposedly a hot SLAC. My own college is so selective I probably couldn't get in it today. Chapman College in Orange County, CA? Who would have thunk?

USC is hot and selective, but it's not an SLAC, it's a university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

So true. USC in my home state was once a joke = University of Spoiled Children. Now supposedly a hot SLAC. My own college is so selective I probably couldn't get in it today. Chapman College in Orange County, CA? Who would have thunk?

USC is hot and selective, but it's not an SLAC, it's a university.

USC is one of, if not THE, largest private colleges in the world. Something like 40,000 students (including grad). It is not an SLAC in any sense of the word. The school is a favorite for those who can't get into the comparable (but much less expensive) large state schools including UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin and Penn State. It is much like these schools than any SLAC or even mid-size private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools that were considered "sub-par" back when I was in college are considered really great now, and have become tough to get into. That includes schools that previously were essential regional and now draw nationally.

You haven't had a child go through the process yourself. When you do you'll see its nothing like it was for us.

So true. USC in my home state was once a joke = University of Spoiled Children. Now supposedly a hot SLAC. My own college is so selective I probably couldn't get in it today. Chapman College in Orange County, CA? Who would have thunk?

USC is hot and selective, but it's not an SLAC, it's a university.

USC is one of, if not THE, largest private colleges in the world. Something like 40,000 students (including grad). It is not an SLAC in any sense of the word. The school is a favorite for those who can't get into the comparable (but much less expensive) large state schools including UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin and Penn State. It is much like these schools than any SLAC or even mid-size private school.

Lots of misinformation in this thread.

In terms of undergrad enrollment, USC is actually quite a bit smaller than these other schools, with 18k undergrads, compared with 30k at Wisconsin, UCLA, and Michigan, and 40k at penn state.

If you are OOS for Michigan or UCLA, tuition is not "much less expensive" than USC, but rather quite comparable.

USC's stats are as good or better than those ofWisconsin, Penn State, Michigan, and UCLA.

USC
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 620-720
Middle 50% SAT math-- 660-760
4 year graduation rate-- 74%

Michigan
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 620-720
Middle 50% SAT math-- 660-760
4 year graduation rate-- 76%

UCLA
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 560-680
Middle 50% SAT math-- 600-760
4 year graduation rate-- 71%

Wisconsin
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 530-650
Middle 50% SAT math-- 630-750
4 year graduation rate-- 53%

Penn State
Middle 50% SAT CR-- 530-630
Middle 50% SAT math-- 560-670
4 year graduation rate-- 65%

Seriously people, if you haven't looked at colleges in the last 5 or so years, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

As for the suspect college admissions consultant, I'd want to know the kid's stats and the "sub par" schools that were recommended, and why they were recommended. Were these recommended as safeties or matches? Did the kid want small schools, so less expensive public options weren't readily available? Did the family say that they could be full pay anywhere so weren't concerned about tuition? Did the family say they needed merit or financial aid, so the consultant was recommending "crazy expensive" schools that are actually very generous with aid for a student with these stats? Without this info, it is impossible to judge the consultant's performance.

[Anonymous]

Interested to know the supposedly sub par school from which the kid boomeranged home.