Is there any empirical evidence on whether kids who must pay part of own college costs do better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents paid for college and I worked hard and did well. It didn't even occur to me not to frankly. Same with DH. My DC is now in college which we are paying for and is working hard. I think it has to do with the values you instill, not whether you require them to work.

I didn't need to "work hard" to do well in college. Law school wasn't particularly difficult.

Roofers, miners, and ditch diggers "work hard'". Sitting on your ass in classes and reading books isn't "working hard". Not by a long shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents paid for college and I worked hard and did well. It didn't even occur to me not to frankly. Same with DH. My DC is now in college which we are paying for and is working hard. I think it has to do with the values you instill, not whether you require them to work.

I didn't need to "work hard" to do well in college. Law school wasn't particularly difficult.

Roofers, miners, and ditch diggers "work hard'". Sitting on your ass in classes and reading books isn't "working hard". Not by a long shot.

Apparently you missed context in your academic studies. We are talking about working hard and doing well in the academic context here, and whether that is influenced by whether or not you are paying for all or a portion of education. Certainly ditch digging is more physically demanding but I don't think that's what this thread is about.

[Anonymous]

http://www.brockport.edu/career01/upromise.htm

Limited work (less than 20 hours per week) is probably not harmful. After that, it's a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is research on working during college. The more hours that a kid works while in college, the less likely they are to graduate.

What if they're screwing, drugging and drinking (as many are, FYI) while they aren't working?

What cesspool do you live in?

The majority of students do not abuse alcohol and drugs.

[Anonymous]

I think you'd want a study that distinguishes between having a real job in college that is actually training in your field of interest vs just some minimum wage shifts that pay the rent. While there are some similarities, in that both require time away from class & studying and you learn to budget at a younger age, there's a pretty fundamental different in how this work impacts your network coming out of college.

Your network, experience, and connections in your field have more to do with success than your GPA, but if your college work experience is comprised of mostly relevant internships, part-time jobs in reputable companies - then that's obviously going to have a positive impact and would be worth the sacrifice of a slightly lower GPA & fewer opportunities to be president of some campus club.

[Anonymous]

As someone who hires, I pretty much discard any resumes of young adults who haven't worked. They may have done well in school but I need more than book smarts. I want to know they can work as a team member, that they had a good work ethic and can manage work responsibilities and I want work references. Working is a different skill set than studying and I don't want to be breaking people in to their first job. i want them to come with the foundational skills needed to be a competent, capable employee already in place and high marks alone don't tell me that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is research on working during college. The more hours that a kid works while in college, the less likely they are to graduate.

What if they're screwing, drugging and drinking (as many are, FYI) while they aren't working?

What cesspool do you live in?

The majority of students do not abuse alcohol and drugs.

Not a majority, but 31% of college students met criteria for a diagnosis of alcohol abuse. Some statistics you may not have been aware of:

Death: 1,400 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die each year from alcohol related unintentional injuries, including motor vehicle crashes (Hingson, Hereen, Kakocs, Kopstein, & Wechsler, 2002).
Injury: 500,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are unintentionally injured under the influence of alcohol (Hingson et al., 2002).
Assault: More than 600,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking (Hingson et al., 2002).
Sexual Abuse: More than 70,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are victims of alcohol related sexual assault or date rape (Hingson et al., 2002).
Unsafe Sex: 400,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 had unprotected sex and more than 100,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report having been too intoxicated to know if they consented to having sex (Hingson et al., 2002).
Academic Problems: About 25% of college students report academic consequences of their drinking including missing class, falling behind, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall (Engs, Diebold, & Hanson., 1996; Presley, Meilman, & Cashin, 1996; Presley, Meilman,, Cashin, & Lyerla, 1996; Wechsler et al., 2002).
Health Problems/Suicide Attempts: More than 150,000 students develop an alcohol-related health problem (Hingson et al., 2002) and between 1.2 and 1.5 % of students indicate that they tried to commit suicide within the past year due to drinking or drug use (Presley et al., 1996a).
4
Drunk Driving: 2.1 million students between the ages of 18 and 24 drove under the influence of alcohol last year (Hingson et al., 2002).
Vandalism: About 11% of college student drinkers report that they have damaged property while under the influence of alcohol (Wechsler et al., 2002).
Property Damage: More than 25% of administrators from schools with relatively low drinking levels and over 50% from schools with high drinking levels say their campuses have a "moderate" or "major" problem with alcohol related property damage (Wechsler et al., 1995).
Police Involvement: About 5% of four-year college students are involved with the police or campus security as a result of their drinking (Wechsler et al., 2002) and an estimated 110,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are arrested for an alcohol related violation such as public drunkenness or driving under the influence (Hingson et al., 2002).
Alcohol Abuse and Dependence: 31% of college students met criteria for a diagnosis of alcohol abuse and 6% for a diagnosis of alcohol dependence in the past 12 months, according to questionnaire based self reports about their drinking (Knight, Wechsler, Juo, Seibring, Weitzman & Schuckit, 2002).


References
Milgram, G. G., & Anderson, D. S. (2000) Action planner: Steps for developing a comprehensive campus alcohol abuse prevention program. Chico Record, May 16, 1919, 5
DeJong, W., & Langford, L. M. (2002). A typology for campus-based alcohol prevention: Moving toward environmental management strategies. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, Supplement No. 14, 140-147.
DeJong, W., Vince-Whitman, C., Colthurst, T., Cretella, M., Gilbreath, M. Rosati, M., and Zweig, K. (1998). Environmental management: A comprehensive Strategy for reducing alcohol and other drug use on college campuses. Newton, MA: Higher Education Center for Alcohol and Other Drug Prevention, U. S. Department of Education.
Engs, R. C., Diebold, B. A., & Hanson, D. J. (1996). The drinking patterns and problems of a national sample of college students, 1994. Journal of Alcohol and Drug Education, 41(3), 13-33.
Johannessen, K. (2003).A practitioner’s perspective. The Report on Social Norms, 2(8), 4-5.
Johnston, L. D., O’Malley, P. M., & Bachman, J. G. (1988). Illicit drug use, smoking, and drinking by America’s high school students, college students, and young adults. Rockville, MD: National institute on Drug Abuse. DHHS Publication No. (adm) 89-1602.
Knight, J. R., Wechsler, H., Juo, M., Seibring, M., Weitzman, E. R., Schuckit, M. A. (2002). Alcohol abuse and dependence among U.S. college students. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, 63, 35-44.
Meyer, M. D. S. (2001). Chico State’s pioneer days, 1919-1987: Imagining the “good old days.” (Unpublished Master’s Thesis, California State University, Chico)
Presley, C. A., Meilman, P. W., Cashin, J. R. (1996). Alcohol and drugs on American college campuses: Use, consequences and perceptions of the campus environment, Vol. IV: 1992-1994. Carbondale, IL: Core Institute, Southern Illinois University.
Presley, C. A. A., Meilman, P. W., Cashin J. R., Lyerla, R. (1996). Alcohol and drugs on American college campuses: Use, consequences and perceptions of the campus environment. Vol. III: 1991-1992. Carbondale, IL: Core Institute, Southern Illinois University.
Rachel, J. V., Maisto, S. A., Guess, L. L., & Hubbard, R. L. (1981). Alcohol misuse among adolescents. Alcohol and Use Facts for Planning, 4, 26-33.
Stokols, D. (1996). Translating social ecological theory into guidelines for community health promotion. American Journal of Health Promotion, 10, 282-298.
Task Force on College Drinking, National Advisory Council on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. (2002). Final report of the panel on prevention and treatment. How to reduce high-risk college drinking: Use proven strategies, fill research gaps.
Wechsler, H., Davenport. A., Dowdall, G., Moeykens, B., Castillo, S. (1994). Health and behavioral consequences of binge drinking in college: A national survey of students at 140 campuses. Journal of the American Medical Association, 272, 1672-1677.
Wechsler, H., Joeykins, B., Davenport, A., Castillo, S., & Hansen, J. (1995). The adverse impact of heavy episodic drinkers on other college students. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, 56, 628-634.
Wechsler, H., Dowdall, G., Maenner, G., Gledhill-Hoyt, J., & Lee, H. (1998). Changes in binge drinking and related problems among American college students between 1993 and 1997. Journal of American College Health, 47, 57-68.
Wechsler, H., Lee, J. E., Nelson, T. F., & Juo, M. (2000). Underage college students’ drinking behavior, access to alcohol, and the influence of deterrence policies: Finding from the Harvard School of Public Health College Alcohol Study. Journal of American College Health, 50(4), 223-236.
Wechsler, H., Lee, J. E., & Kuo, M. (2002). Trends in college binge drinking during a period of increased prevention efforts: Findings from four Harvard School of Public Health College Alcohol Study surveys, 1993-2001. Journal of American College Health, 50(5), 203-217.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who hires, I pretty much discard any resumes of young adults who haven't worked. They may have done well in school but I need more than book smarts. I want to know they can work as a team member, that they had a good work ethic and can manage work responsibilities and I want work references. Working is a different skill set than studying and I don't want to be breaking people in to their first job. i want them to come with the foundational skills needed to be a competent, capable employee already in place and high marks alone don't tell me that.

+1 - And it doesn't matter if the work experience is in the career field or not, as the other PP stated. As stated here, work experience shows you can work in a team, which is very important. In my high tech job in a fortune 100 company, I can tell you that the company would rather hire someone who is a great team player with average coding skills than an outstanding coder who cannot work as a team player. That person usually gets put in "special projects" which usually means he's on his way out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who hires, I pretty much discard any resumes of young adults who haven't worked. They may have done well in school but I need more than book smarts. I want to know they can work as a team member, that they had a good work ethic and can manage work responsibilities and I want work references. Working is a different skill set than studying and I don't want to be breaking people in to their first job. i want them to come with the foundational skills needed to be a competent, capable employee already in place and high marks alone don't tell me that.

But you wouldn't know whether that money went for tuition or pizza or an eventual downpayment on a house, right? My parents paid for college; I worked for spending money.

I think everyone should take a job that is basically scutwork and learn to do it well without complaint, because people who think necessary parts of their job are beneath them are a huge PITA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who hires, I pretty much discard any resumes of young adults who haven't worked. They may have done well in school but I need more than book smarts. I want to know they can work as a team member, that they had a good work ethic and can manage work responsibilities and I want work references. Working is a different skill set than studying and I don't want to be breaking people in to their first job. i want them to come with the foundational skills needed to be a competent, capable employee already in place and high marks alone don't tell me that.

+1 - And it doesn't matter if the work experience is in the career field or not, as the other PP stated. As stated here, work experience shows you can work in a team, which is very important. In my high tech job in a fortune 100 company, I can tell you that the company would rather hire someone who is a great team player with average coding skills than an outstanding coder who cannot work as a team player. That person usually gets put in "special projects" which usually means he's on his way out.

I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who hires, I pretty much discard any resumes of young adults who haven't worked. They may have done well in school but I need more than book smarts. I want to know they can work as a team member, that they had a good work ethic and can manage work responsibilities and I want work references. Working is a different skill set than studying and I don't want to be breaking people in to their first job. i want them to come with the foundational skills needed to be a competent, capable employee already in place and high marks alone don't tell me that.

But you wouldn't know whether that money went for tuition or pizza or an eventual downpayment on a house, right? My parents paid for college; I worked for spending money.

I think everyone should take a job that is basically scutwork and learn to do it well without complaint, because people who think necessary parts of their job are beneath them are a huge PITA.

Right. I don't really care who paid for your college degree. I care that you have a solid work history on your resume by the time that you graduate that demonstrates to me that you have the skills to be a responsible and valuable team member.

[Anonymous]

Working in school also shows an ability to multi task. When I see on a resume that all the person did was school from September to April, that is a big red flag. I prefer to hire those who have worked during school or participated in extracurricular activities (sports) or even volunteering or a club or committee. I don't want a new employee who is coming from only handling 15-20 hours of class a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

No, that could be Ping-Pong, tennis or golf - those don't count. Teamwork is the trait you are looking for. It's essential in business, banking or law. This might help:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-03-22/wall-streets-lacrosse-mafia

Sports like lacrosse consistently yield high performers in the corporate world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

Not the PP, but the ability to be part of a team is key in many workplaces. There's not a lot of benefit to hiring the worker who is only out for himself.