Abortion foes begin to focus on reducing NEED for abortions instead of laws....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the dumbest article I've seen in a long time. Anti-abortion groups have been fighting for *decades* to help lower the incidence of abortion. There are thousands of anti-abortion organizations and churches in this country that actually help women have their baby rather than abort it, by offering both physical and financial support during unplanned pregnancies. The angle in the article is "poor little pro-lifers, finally getting a clue now that Obama is going to be president." BAHHHHHHH.

Please, someone tell me which pro-abortion groups actually work to help women keep their babies rather than abort them? And what services do they offer to help do this?

I would love to know this too. My pro-life denomination consistently supports mothers in need to keep their babies. We collect used baby gear (strollers, cribs, car seats, you name it) all the time from members who no longer need them, provide financial assistance, etc. We walk our talk. I have yet to see a pro-abortion group lift a finger to make abortion 'rare' and offer mother in need the choice to bear their child and either raise the child or make an adoptive family very happy.

First, it is not pro-abortion. It is pro-choice. All because you support a women's right to choose whether to have an abortion does NOT mean you are pro-abortion. Changing the terminology doesn't make your case any better. It just makes you look petty.

Second, who the hell do you think supports and ensures most of the federal and state social welfare programs in this country? DEMOCRATS. I'm not saying that all democrats are pro-choice, but generally speaking, we are the party that supports widescale programs for low-income families and children.

Third, why are you assuming that pro-choice individuals don't go to church and donate just as much as you do??? You aren't foolish enough to think that only pro-lifers go to church, are you?

Lastly, I would love to see how much financial support you actually provide to mothers in need. I highly doubt it is significant or meaningful. Just enough to make self-righteous people like yourself sleep at night. Since I bet you also believe we should lower taxes, increase defense spending and cut all welfare programs too, right?

[Anonymous]

To the PPs who used the term "pro abortion" - this is a major misnomer. No organizations I know of are "pro abortion" - thats just crazy. Please refrain from using heated language - the terms we should use are pro-choice or anti-choice - those are what address the real issue. Nobody wants women to get pregnant just so they can have an abortion and in the ideal circumstances, I think everyone would be "pro-life".

[Anonymous]

I was uninsured for many years. It was Planned Parenthood that helped me by offering affordable exams and birth control to me (taken for reasons other than pregnancy prevention). They even offered to mail them to my house if I was unable to pick them up. Unplanned pregnancy was not on my list of concerns as a lesbian. Planned Parenthood reaches out to offer health services to people in my community with compassion, even though we don't fit into their perceived agenda. I haven't seen any churches offering annual testing and exams to low-income women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the dumbest article I've seen in a long time. Anti-abortion groups have been fighting for *decades* to help lower the incidence of abortion. There are thousands of anti-abortion organizations and churches in this country that actually help women have their baby rather than abort it, by offering both physical and financial support during unplanned pregnancies. The angle in the article is "poor little pro-lifers, finally getting a clue now that Obama is going to be president." BAHHHHHHH.

Please, someone tell me which pro-abortion groups actually work to help women keep their babies rather than abort them? And what services do they offer to help do this?

I would love to know this too. My pro-life denomination consistently supports mothers in need to keep their babies. We collect used baby gear (strollers, cribs, car seats, you name it) all the time from members who no longer need them, provide financial assistance, etc. We walk our talk. I have yet to see a pro-abortion group lift a finger to make abortion 'rare' and offer mother in need the choice to bear their child and either raise the child or make an adoptive family very happy.

First, it is not pro-abortion. It is pro-choice.

AGREED. AND IT IS NOT ANTI-ABORTION - IT IS PRO-LIFE LETS BE EVEN HANDED HERE OKAY?

All because you support a women's right to choose whether to have an abortion does NOT mean you are pro-abortion. Changing the terminology doesn't make your case any better. It just makes you look petty.

Second, who the hell do you think supports and ensures most of the federal and state social welfare programs in this country? DEMOCRATS. I'm not saying that all democrats are pro-choice, but generally speaking, we are the party that supports widescale programs for low-income families and children.

Correct. Taking tax money from people morally opposed to the procedure (abortion) and forcing them to economically support them. Pro-life groups support voluntarily by giving - can you see the difference?

Third, why are you assuming that pro-choice individuals don't go to church and donate just as much as you do??? You aren't foolish enough to think that only pro-lifers go to church, are you?

Nope, would never assume such a thing. I have seen that Obama goes to church, Bill and Hillary go to church. On the donation side though, an objective look would show that tax returns from the Obamas and Bidens showed considerably less charitable donation than McCain and Palin. Maybe they don't represent rank and file Democrats, I am willing to concede the point.

Lastly, I would love to see how much financial support you actually provide to mothers in need. I highly doubt it is significant or meaningful. Just enough to make self-righteous people like yourself sleep at night.

name calling is not becoming of adults engaged in a civil conversation. Why are pro-choice people so angry and judgmental? I am not asking you to change you mind, just asking that you don't pick my pocket to help women have abortions.

Since I bet you also believe we should lower taxes,

yes

increase defense spending

not necessarily - no strong feelings either way

and cut all welfare programs

no, not all. Certainly some.

too, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, bear in mind that many pro-life organizations, especially the Roman Catholic Church, are also firm proponents of abstinence and support organizations such as Birth Right with time, talent and treasure. However, to ask them to support birth control, to which they are doctrinally opposed, is a bridge too far /quote]

I was raised super-Catholic so I am very familiar with the faith already, thank you.

This is my problem with Catholicism - "to ask them to support birth control, to which they are doctrinally opposed".

Catholicism needs to get past this. And it can. Catholicism had evolved significantly in the last century and if they could bring their dogma more in line with the attitude of MOST people and support birth control, they could alleviate so much pain and suffering! I can understand advocating for the unborn. But let's make sure those that get CONCEIVED are wanted!!!

It makes me so angry it's a large part of why I left the church. At its core I feel it is strongly anti-female and sabotages the poor - its neediest constituents - with its attitudes about sex and birth control. How many poor women could be saved from increased poverty, unwanted abortions and unwanted children, if the Pope just told them "you know what, it's OK - you can use birth control, and tell your dang husband I said so".

[Anonymous]

Everyone, even Catholics, are entitled to their beliefs. It is a bit of hubris to tell Catholics and the Pope to "get past this."

Sorry, where is this inclusiveness and tolerance that the Democrats are so famous for? It is all sunshine and daisies when we agree with you, but not so much if we think differently eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone, even Catholics, are entitled to their beliefs. It is a bit of hubris to tell Catholics and the Pope to "get past this."

Sorry, where is this inclusiveness and tolerance that the Democrats are so famous for? It is all sunshine and daisies when we agree with you, but not so much if we think differently eh?

Democrat or liberal I may be; I too am allowed my beliefs and feelings. And my feeling on this matter is outrage.

[Anonymous]

Who are any of us to judge another? Just because a pro-choice person or an anti-abortion person does obviously show their support for a pregnant, like minded young lady....does not mean they have not been instrumental in that young ladies life. We need each other. Especially if we find ourselves being pregnant, alone and scared. I think the point about the judgmental nature of both parties is a significant one. There but for the grace of God go all of us. By simply not judging, you are doing something positive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone, even Catholics, are entitled to their beliefs. It is a bit of hubris to tell Catholics and the Pope to "get past this."

Sorry, where is this inclusiveness and tolerance that the Democrats are so famous for? It is all sunshine and daisies when we agree with you, but not so much if we think differently eh?

So "liberals" aren't entitled to have opinions? They are just supposed to tolerate... Everything? How about female genital mutilation? Honor Killing? Sending widows to the funeral pyre with their husbands? It's cultural, it's (perhaps) religious; so liberals aren't allowed to object to things they find morally objectionable because YOU say it goes against inclusiveness and tolerance?

[Anonymous]

I am Catholic. I go to church. I receive the sacraments. I had an abortion.

Go ahead and judge me. God has forgiven me. Do you enough to even ask for forgivness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. I go to church. I receive the sacraments. I had an abortion.

Go ahead and judge me. God has forgiven me. Do you enough to even ask for forgivness?

Who is judging you, on this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Now if they would support birth control, they could really impact the problem.

...as if it's the lack of access to birth control that's causing all these abortions.

OK, brainiac. I'll spell it out for you. A lot of religions teach abstinence to their kids, and discourage birth control or even call it sinful. As a result, many of their darling little kids start having sex without using birth control. Worse, they get on the PTA and prevent the teaching about contraception to other people's children, some of whom also don't get the message and end up pregnant. Have you not heard of this phenomenon? It's a big secret, I know, but... DUH!

[Anonymous]

I have some friends who now must be about 60. 40 years ago they had to get married - because they were pregnant. I asked these two intelligent, college educated catholics (who were good friends) how they got pregnant (besides the obvious). Well, they said, birth control was against our religion. UM, what about the premarital sex???? If you are gonna pick and choose your commandments to follow, why do you break the sex rule but obey the birth control rule???

I will NEVER understand this... but their kids are lovely!

[Anonymous]

The snottiness, hostility, and bigotry coming from supposedly understanding and caring pro-choicers is astounding.

I love the way YOU get to decide that people who consider themselves "pro life" should actually be called "anti choice", yet when someone calls you pro-abortion you flip out. Personally, I do not believe in abortion, so I think anti-abortion pretty clearly sums up my views. I think those who approve of abortion (even if you don't think it is necessarily the best thing) could rightly be called pro-abortion. Your hopes are to keep abortion available and legal; you vote for policies that support abortion and are thus pro abortion.

Certainly people who consider themselves pro-life are not against choice - or even reproductive choices - at all. People who call themselves prolife support all choices, except for those choices which would infringe on another person's right to life. Likewise; those who label themselves pro-choice are not anti-life. Both terms prolife and prochoice are politically motivated terms that do not accurately portray the reality they intend to reflect. That is why I think anti and pro abortion are much more succint and useful. Since people get all whacked out about those terms, then we are probably stuck with using the misguided prolife and prochoice.

[Anonymous]

It's ironic the way we have twisted the rather optimistic slant of this thread, which emphasized an area of agreement, and turned it into a rehash of the disagreements. Instead of exploring the fact that we would all prefer not to see anyone faced with an unwanted pregnancy, we're fighting over nomenclature.

Shame on us!