Need reality check/suggestions re Husband

[Anonymous]

11:28 here, thanks for not flaming. I guess I thought I'd hear from some folks who thought I was being too mean to males in general.

I understand that gross generalizations are not always helpful. But I can't tell you how many women I know who have this same problem with their husbands.

In discussing my problems with my dad recently, he told me that women changed, and signed up for change, but he is not sure that men "signed up" for our expectations.

Many of these men we've married don't seem to be prepared for life in a marriage where sex roles have become blurred. They seem TOTALLY unprepared. Maybe it's easier for girls because as little girls, many of us played with dolls, and liked babies, and have often envisioned motherhood, even as we work towards degrees, careers, etc. And before we had kids, we did the vaccuming, and the dishes, and our husbands mowed and changed oil, and that was fine with everybody.

Our husbands don't have the same "training" we do. Suddenly we expect him not only to work and do his manly stuff, but also be 50% mommy.

Since I work, I expect NOT to be the full time mommy/housekeeper. But he doesn't want to be that either.

I feel I am doing way more than my share, and I am angry about it, and I don't think the anger is helping my marriage. Did the therapy thing already.

I sound like a candidate for the single moms forum too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't flame. But I do think it's interesting that there appears to be a trend that moms find ways to do what they have to do WHILE watching the kid. And dads seem to have a harder time or a different expectation with that.

Yeah, but one of my giant pet peeves is that my husband rarely spends time with our child without being on his laptop, blackberry, etc. Why can't he just sit on the floor and play trucks with her for a half hour? Then he insists that he wants to give me time to myself, and this is the only way he can do that for me. And I can't argue, 'cause he presents it as a sacrifice.

BUT I have to remember that like many of us he was raised in a house where the father had the traditional role of taking care of the family rather than being a hands-on parent.

[DELETED MIDDLE SECTION]


SO in this case tell your husband that while he is watching your daughter you want him to read these 3 books (pick them out and give to him) and to play for x number of minutes with whatever toys she is interested in. He may be better about that rather than saying... why don't you spend more time with her? Men need to be given directions if they don't know naturally what to do.

There have a been a lot of thoughtful posts that I (not OP or anything am mulling over), but I wanted to comment quickly on this. I don't know if I agree that fathers haven't been the hands-on parent. It depends on what you mean. It sounds like you mean -- interacting and playing (as opposed to the parent who cooks the child's meals and takes them to the doctor). When I was growing up, rarely did mothers get on the floor and play. Stories, sure. Trucks, not as much. In fact, it was dads who did physical rough house play. I don't remember my mother (or any friend's mother) getting on the floor to play with us. I think it's just another expectation that we put on ourselves. I love playing with my daughter, don't get me wrong, but when I see posts like this, I realize it's turning into yet another measure of "good" parenthood.

As to point 2, I would be very very wary about setting out such specific directions. Mom shouldn't be in a position to micromanage Dad/kids' playtime.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I messed up formatting the quotes.

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of a story my sister told me...she's a SAHM and when her first was about 10m, her husband came home from work, kissed her, kissed the baby, and started to head upstairs. She was in the middle of making dinner. The baby started crying for daddy. She said, "why don't you take him with you." He said, "But I have to get changed." She said, "Uhh...how do you think I get changed every day?? With the baby!" My brother-in-law is a great guy, but to me it just speaks to how women seem to juggle and multi-task instinctively, while men have to learn through practice.

During my son's first year of life, I thought I would kill my husband. He would do dishes, but leave all the pump parts in the sink. Drove me batty! When our son was 3 weeks old, he thought he should relandscape. When I worked late, I would come home to find the house DESTROYED, and both of them passed out. But.... when I came home from the store this Sunday, I found that he was able to rake the leaves w/ our now 19mo and get him down for his nap. Lovely! This morning I had awful morning sickness, and he packed our son's lunch and got him dressed, without being asked. Fantastic! He was a bachelor for 20 years before he became a family man, and didn't adjust his priorities all at once like women seem more prone to do (probably something about giving birth!)

My advice is before you go out for coffee with the girls, go out for coffee with your husband. It's possible to work through this, but you have to start NOW.

[Anonymous]

To me it sound like empathy may have gone a long way! "Yeah it is so different now with the baby! You really miss your alone time, I understand, cause I do to! Maybe we can figure out a way to build some in, so we are both feeling fulfilled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There have a been a lot of thoughtful posts that I (not OP or anything am mulling over), but I wanted to comment quickly on this. I don't know if I agree that fathers haven't been the hands-on parent. It depends on what you mean. It sounds like you mean -- interacting and playing (as opposed to the parent who cooks the child's meals and takes them to the doctor). When I was growing up, rarely did mothers get on the floor and play. Stories, sure. Trucks, not as much. In fact, it was dads who did physical rough house play. I don't remember my mother (or any friend's mother) getting on the floor to play with us. I think it's just another expectation that we put on ourselves. I love playing with my daughter, don't get me wrong, but when I see posts like this, I realize it's turning into yet another measure of "good" parenthood.

As to point 2, I would be very very wary about setting out such specific directions. Mom shouldn't be in a position to micromanage Dad/kids' playtime.

I like the way you think. I hadn't realized before that making time to play and interact with my child is one of the ways I'm being not-my-mom. I don't know how she was when we were babies, but she definitely never participated in games or toys or make-believe in my memory. I must be subconsciously trying to be more like my dad, who was only around 1 or 2 waking hours a day, but spent at least part of that time playing with us.

I also don't like to micromanage my husband. I see my sister-in-law doing the gatekeeping thing, and want to avoid that. (Example, her husband washed and folded a load of laundry. She got home, pursed her lips, and re-folded the whole basket. No big surprise that he doesn't do laundry any more, is it?)

[Anonymous]

OP here, thank you, this is the reality check I need--because I love him, he is a great dad and they have such a good time together, it makes me so happy to see them playing together. I don't want to be on the single parents discussion board. (he doesn't watch football, and he does the grocery shopping and cooking because he loves to, although honestly, sometimes I would just rather eat a sandwich!) And I know he thinks I don't listen well. ANd if my mom is any indication, I could use some improving on my listening skills. It's that really neutral line of questions (what he means, how much time etc) that I have such a hard time transitioning into.

Anonymous wrote:
You may think what he is saying is totally ridiculous but that is how HE feels and HE thinks and rather than invalidating that-- you should listen to him and try to come up with a plan together.

That is listen to what he has to say and ask him what he means and how much time he needs and does that need to be separate from an activity that he is doing on his own and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Full disclosure, I am a SAHD. I am not trying to become the Dad's defender here, but I am trying to understand what's upsetting him.

Here is how I interpreted the exchange. He is his saying "I am having trouble coping with the demands of parenthood".

Your response was something like "You are getting a lot more free time than me".

If he is really struggling, telling him that he is getting the better deal and you are getting even less freedom does not help him cope. Instead it makes the problem about which of you is pulling more weight. He can either feel resentful of you for implying he's not good enough, guilty that he can't do what you do, upset that you are not acknowledging his frustration, or trapped because there is no answer except for him to suck it up.

Please don't get me wrong. You are within your rights to expect a fair division of labor. Heck, if your job is so demanding, maybe it is fair for you to get more free time. But that doesn't change his feeling that he is drowning and that he needs help. Maybe if you can discuss it without making this about making this about equality between the two of you then he can open up about how he's handling things and you can start to help him address the problem.

The solution hopefully will not involve more sacrifice on your part. For instance, when my wife came to me about lack of free time, it turned out that she didn't really want more hours Rather, she needed structure so that she could plan for and look forward to her free time. And she needed some buffer time when she got home from work so that she didn't get hit immediately with baby things. Honestly, it didn't take away any of my free time. But that structure made her situation much better. On the other hand, I didn't need structure so much as a free pass on the really bad days. Now, if the kid is cranky, naps for only a half hour, won't eat, won't play, etc. she takes him on a walk after she's settled and gives me a no-cry zone so that I can decompress and regroup to work on putting dinner on the table.

On the other hand, the solution could require you to take on even more work. If it does, that's up to you. It may be a time where your generosity for some number of weeks could really help him pull his act together. But you are within your rights to expect a fair division of labor and I know that women usually get the short end of the stick, so I'll juts say consider the possibility that it might be best even if it is unfair. I know I have more childcare stamina than my wife and so I don't expect equality on times when we are both around. It's OK for me. But do it only if it's OK for you.

Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

The only reason I don't resent managing and taking the lion's share of the household and childcare responsibilities and delegating to him when I need to (even though I work full-time) is that my husband takes on what I view as comparable tasks that I absolutely cannot stand to do. He handles all the bills and paperwork and record-keeping and taxes, which is a HUGE job because we have a lot of medical bills and other things to keep track of. I cannot express how much I hate doing that. He also vacuums and washes the floors (I do not share this with him.) and maintains the house and yard. He shleps stuff to the dump, goes grocery shopping (with a descriptive list), and handles problems I don't want to deal with. He also does his own laundry and prepares his own meals because his schedule does not lend itself to having meals with the family most of the time.

I think the grown-ups in any household have to understand the demands of everything that needs to be done, and divide them up in a way that works for everyone. This requires communicating in a loving and supportive way, instead of like quarreling siblings or roomates. Open communication without drama in a neutral setting is the right place to talk it all out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only reason I don't resent managing and taking the lion's share of the household and childcare responsibilities and delegating to him when I need to (even though I work full-time) is that my husband takes on what I view as comparable tasks that I absolutely cannot stand to do. He handles all the bills and paperwork and record-keeping and taxes, which is a HUGE job because we have a lot of medical bills and other things to keep track of. I cannot express how much I hate doing that. He also vacuums and washes the floors (I do not share this with him.) and maintains the house and yard. He shleps stuff to the dump, goes grocery shopping (with a descriptive list), and handles problems I don't want to deal with. He also does his own laundry and prepares his own meals because his schedule does not lend itself to having meals with the family most of the time.

I think the grown-ups in any household have to understand the demands of everything that needs to be done, and divide them up in a way that works for everyone. This requires communicating in a loving and supportive way, instead of like quarreling siblings or roomates. Open communication without drama in a neutral setting is the right place to talk it all out.

I totally agree 100% with your statement! I do the lions share of typical woman duties. However, we have a huge yard and my DH keeps that looking nice and does every home improvement project I ask of him-and completes it. He handles the finances and car problems. I have a vegetable garden I love and he gets out there each spring and does the back breaking labor of getting the beds ready. I do think it important that all of the tasks each person does be taken into consideration. I think we sometimes take the oil changes, leaf raking, and home improvements for granted.

HOWEVER, if my DH did not do his "man duties" as we call it, I would go nuts with resentment.

[Anonymous]

I sympathize with the comments that women unfairly take on more of the work-family balance struggles than men, but I think that the OP took a less than productive approach to communicating with her husband, and that re-shaping these interactions could go a long way. Let's look at this hypothetical conversation:

Her: I am so tired from working in the garden all day. My back hurts and I think I need to get more sleep if I'm going to keep up with this hard work.
Him: Oh yeah? Well I did the mowing and planted the heavy trees and went to Home Depot twice because you forgot to buy bulbs. I never get sleep either.

You wouldn't like that response because
--your accurate assessment of your condition was ignored
--your accurate assesment of your needs was ignored
--you were told that you lost the misery contest, and that it matters
--your spouse failed to indicate concern for you
and
--no one proposed a productive solution

Better:

Her: I am so tired from working in the garden all day. My back hurts and I think I need to get more sleep if I'm going to keep up with this hard work.
Him: I'm sorry. We have some Motrin in the medicine cabinet. Listen, do you feel well enough to do bath time with Jr. while I cook dinner? Then we can both turn in early.

--you were heard
--a reasonable solution got put in place

Maybe at the end of the day you'll still have an imbalance of chores. Maybe it'll improve, or not. But at least you'll have each other as friends and allies.

[Anonymous]

OP, it's not so bad over there in the single mom forum .

But it sounds to me like you have a marriage where you love each other and respect each other, and there's a lot of good advice here. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

There have a been a lot of thoughtful posts that I (not OP or anything am mulling over), but I wanted to comment quickly on this. I don't know if I agree that fathers haven't been the hands-on parent. It depends on what you mean. It sounds like you mean -- interacting and playing (as opposed to the parent who cooks the child's meals and takes them to the doctor). When I was growing up, rarely did mothers get on the floor and play. Stories, sure. Trucks, not as much. In fact, it was dads who did physical rough house play. I don't remember my mother (or any friend's mother) getting on the floor to play with us. I think it's just another expectation that we put on ourselves. I love playing with my daughter, don't get me wrong, but when I see posts like this, I realize it's turning into yet another measure of "good" parenthood.

As to point 2, I would be very very wary about setting out such specific directions. Mom shouldn't be in a position to micromanage Dad/kids' playtime.


I am the poster that wrote this. What I meant about my husband's upbringing was that my FIL provided for the family and my MIL was the person who took care of everything. My FIL was not a hands on parent while the kids were young. He didn't play or roughhouse at all. Rather they had the roles of MIL would take care of everything and FIL would work and be the disciplinarian. I certainly am not trying to create standards of "good parenthood" I guess what i was trying to say is another poster said a lot more articulately is what 11:38 and 12:38 said a lot more articulately:

In discussing my problems with my dad recently, he told me that women changed, and signed up for change, but he is not sure that men "signed up" for our expectations.

Many of these men we've married don't seem to be prepared for life in a marriage where sex roles have become blurred. They seem TOTALLY unprepared. Maybe it's easier for girls because as little girls, many of us played with dolls, and liked babies, and have often envisioned motherhood, even as we work towards degrees, careers, etc. And before we had kids, we did the vaccuming, and the dishes, and our husbands mowed and changed oil, and that was fine with everybody.

Our husbands don't have the same "training" we do. Suddenly we expect him not only to work and do his manly stuff, but also be 50% mommy.

As to the 2nd point, I wasn't suggesting micromanaging at all. I was just saying that some husbands like mine, are at a loss as to what to do. They don't know how to get on the floor and play. Quite frankly I am one of those moms, where it requires a lot of effort to get on the floor and play. And therefore giving concrete suggestions on what to do might be more helpful in encouraging the father to spend time with the child rather than saying here your turn play with the kid.


Just wanted to clarify what I meant.

[Anonymous]

I am a married mom but i have to second the SAHD's assessment. It sounds like what the husband wanted to do what just complain and vent a little. Sometimes an empathetic-- "yeah this is so hard and it sucks that we can't have time like we used to" is enough. But also, I can totally understand how little comments like that can start off an explosion of annoyance in your head! OP, does your husband have friends to bitch about this kind of stuff with? Sometimes I really wish my husband had friends to express that kind of stuff to, instead of to me

[Anonymous]

To the OP:

You may want to get your own therapist to explore whether you think this is just an adjustment issue for him/you (the whole becoming parents and sorting it out thing) or the latest spin on existing problems. Sometimes doing your own work, and learning about yourself, helps put things in perspective.

My husband and I have been on the verge of divorce for about 6 years (coincidentally, our eldest is 6). We step up to the edge of the cliff, back away, step up to it again, and so on.

The good news is that through my own work I have been able to see what I contribute to the problem and what I actually need from and expect in a spouse. What I have contributed is being a doormat and not calling him on his BS. He contributes the BS. We had these problems before kids, but we were so busy working then it never really mattered all that much.

We are now in what may be our final attempt at couples counseling. We have gone off and on over the years, although I have been pretty much "on" with my own work over that time (sometimes more frequently than others. Sometimes when things are stable I go once a month. Other times it is more frequent). It has helped, and I think I see things pretty clearly now. I am now very clear on what I want and expect. The question is whether he can deliver it.

We managed to work through all those initial parenting problems (I have a killer spreadsheet with every single task in the house that we divided up). But resolving those did not fix the underlying problems. That's what we either will, or won't, fix now.

Good luck to you, OP, and to everybody else on this thread who is struggling.