Income of $22,000 a year is considered the poverty line for a family of four- WTH?

[Anonymous]

why don't they just work harder? I mean, jeez, work harder and all these problems will be solved.

(I hope you all can tell that this is DRIPPING with sarcasm...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:why don't they just work harder? I mean, jeez, work harder and all these problems will be solved.

(I hope you all can tell that this is DRIPPING with sarcasm...)

poverty is a difficult thing to understand and a horrible cycle to break. but really, many are poor by choice. what are the BIGGEST statistical factors in being poor? not graduating from high school. kids out of marriage. those are choices.

[Anonymous]

agree with pp, it's called poverty line for a reason. And don't forget--at 22K for a family of four, that family is eligible for and likely receiving government assistance--food stamps, medicaid, likely housing and childcare assistance. The 22K figure does not include government benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why don't they just work harder? I mean, jeez, work harder and all these problems will be solved.

(I hope you all can tell that this is DRIPPING with sarcasm...)

poverty is a difficult thing to understand and a horrible cycle to break. but really, many are poor by choice. what are the BIGGEST statistical factors in being poor? not graduating from high school. kids out of marriage. those are choices.

No, the biggest factor in poverty is poverty. And reality is that many people in poverty don't have or perceive that they have real "choices". If you're a kid in a poor family, are pressured to work to support your family and/or get no support from parents/grandparents to go to school and/or live in a dangerous environment where surviving takes priority over going to class, then graduating from high school isn't as much of a choice, especially when you're under 18. That's why inner city drop out rates are often upwards of 50%.

Kids out of marriage is a choice, but again, when your models are parents and grandparents who may have had children very young and out of wedlock and/or you are not provided access to information about birth control and/or you grew up in a broken home, then you get kids out of wedlock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:why don't they just work harder? I mean, jeez, work harder and all these problems will be solved.

(I hope you all can tell that this is DRIPPING with sarcasm...)

Sadly, I know people who think this.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it does seem like it is low (it is), but my dad made a little less than that and he was the only supporter of the household in our family of 8 growing up. We were in the South though, with lower col and received food stamps, discount on 1 or 2 bills I think and free lunch at school. We also pretty much shopped at the dollar store mostly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:poverty is a difficult thing to understand and a horrible cycle to break. but really, many are poor by choice. what are the BIGGEST statistical factors in being poor? not graduating from high school. kids out of marriage. those are choices.

That's true for some, but not for all. When working in the local soup kitchen, I've met a few people who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are some who didn't graduate high school because they really aren't the brightest people. I knew someone who failed HS and failed the GED twice (total three times). He gave up and just started working minimum wage type jobs. He often worked two or three jobs because he frequently could not get enough hours to work full-time at one job. At one point, he was working three part-time jobs as a mechanics assistant and he spent a lot of time walking around town (he couldn't afford a car and this was the suburbs, so the bus wasn't convenient for when he had to get places). Because he was part-time and unskilled labor, he was usually the first one to get hours cut when they needed to cut back. I could tell when he was working more, he would come to the soup kitchen less. When he was working more, he could afford food more easily. But when he was short of cash, he would pay the rent and then come to the soup kitchen to eat.

Your assertion that not graduating from HS is the typical thoughts for many of the "haves". But not all of the "have nots" are that bright and finishing high school may be very difficult for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Called the poverty line for a reason. If you are at that point you are in actual poverty. Not just having trouble making ends meet.

While I get your point here, I'm a bit dismayed at the kneejerk response. This is supposed to help us figure out how many people are struggling in the United States but it no longer measures poverty the way it used to because the costs of things we need to live have changed. There is a legitimate case that it should be higher, because obviously more people are struggling to survive at these income levels than used to be the case. Even if you don't care about whether people are poor, we ought to care that we have consistent measures - and this measure is not consistent over time.

From a site which explores this problem:
http://www.tolerance.org/activity/calculating-poverty-line

In 2012, the federal government set the poverty line for a family of four at $23,050. The figure is based on food costs — the government identifies how much it should cost to feed a family of four for one year and then multiplies that number by three. The formula has been used for decades.

What it fails to capture is this: In today's America, food expenses represent just one-fifth of the average household budget, not a third. Other costs — housing, health care, childcare and transportation — typically eat up larger portions of a family's budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why don't they just work harder? I mean, jeez, work harder and all these problems will be solved.

(I hope you all can tell that this is DRIPPING with sarcasm...)

poverty is a difficult thing to understand and a horrible cycle to break. but really, many are poor by choice. what are the BIGGEST statistical factors in being poor? not graduating from high school. kids out of marriage. those are choices.

Oh God, you are a Tea Partier, no doubt.

Did you by any chance grow up in a single parent home, maybe with a teenaged mother, a parent with a drug problem? Were you sexually abused? Were there any books in your house? Any fresh vegetables? Was diet coke and a bag of Cheetos dinner for you? Did you get enough sleep when the TV was on all night or your mom was partying with her boyfriend?

Did you choose your parents, PP?

Try living on $22K (with a family of four) for a full year in DC, and get back to me on how well you manage, PP.

[Anonymous]

Graduating from high school does not mean you are no longer poor. Some have to work while attending high school and give money to their parents to help them get by. Graduating is not easy when you are in one of the worst school districts.

I was one of the poorest kids at the community college I attended, graduating from there was not a road to riches either. Got my first job, but no professional attire.
List just goes on and on. It really is not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Called the poverty line for a reason. If you are at that point you are in actual poverty. Not just having trouble making ends meet.

While I get your point here, I'm a bit dismayed at the kneejerk response. This is supposed to help us figure out how many people are struggling in the United States but it no longer measures poverty the way it used to because the costs of things we need to live have changed. There is a legitimate case that it should be higher, because obviously more people are struggling to survive at these income levels than used to be the case. Even if you don't care about whether people are poor, we ought to care that we have consistent measures - and this measure is not consistent over time.

From a site which explores this problem:
http://www.tolerance.org/activity/calculating-poverty-line

In 2012, the federal government set the poverty line for a family of four at $23,050. The figure is based on food costs — the government identifies how much it should cost to feed a family of four for one year and then multiplies that number by three. The formula has been used for decades.

What it fails to capture is this: In today's America, food expenses represent just one-fifth of the average household budget, not a third. Other costs — housing, health care, childcare and transportation — typically eat up larger portions of a family's budget.

I agree that it should factor in more than just food costs (I know Section 8 adjusts by locality since housing costs vary so widely, in the DC area, the income limits are much higher than the federal poverty line). I was making just over $22K in the rural Midwest. Just me and an infant. Daycare was $125/wk and I got assistance, but it only covered 50%. I got WIC, but my child was formula fed and that covered about 60% of his food costs. Average rent (I lived on family land for free) was $500/mo for a crappy 1bd place, I found one place for $300, but there were holes in the floor and the windows were papered over. I think I qualified for Section 8, but there was a year waitlist. NO public transportation, so a car was a necessity. Baby was covered by Medicaid, I wasn't, so I skipped doctor and dentist visits for 3 years.

And that's just necessities. I also had lawyers bills from the 18mo long divorce and custody battle and student loans to deal with. I was lucky though, I had a degree and I was able to find a job. I had a place to live for free. I can't imagine living on that salary with more than one child. Or in this area. Considering how many kids are FARMS kids in the city, it really just blows my mind that people are living on that little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Called the poverty line for a reason. If you are at that point you are in actual poverty. Not just having trouble making ends meet.

I really don't think people who make some of the highest incomes in the country have any place commenting on the realities of people who either struggle or are in poverty. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

Unless you are someplace with super low rents (like my husband's hometown in rural TN where you can rent a habitable 2 bedroom apt for $350 a month), it doesn't seem like there is any way to live on that amount with a family that size.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just saw this on NBC news and this was the statistic they cited. In what universe? I make $50K for me and DD and am struggling. Please don't say "DC is more expensive." 22K in ANY place in this country for four people is ridiculous. Anybody making only that... I just wonder how that family could survive.

And if your employer did not provide health insurance and you couldn't afford to buy your own healthcare for you and your DD, you would owe a tax penalty too every year (but still be uninsured). It's a F-d up world we live in now.