Protecting special needs children from harsh discipline in school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is an example. In my school, there was a student who had an IEP and was very hyperactive and impulsive. Most teachers dealt with him with as much patience as you could get. He was allowed to do things other kids couldn't like taking frequent breaks, walking down the hallways to deliver messages, etc. But when he grabbed another student and ripped up his paper b/c the other student finished before him, he was disciplined just like any other student would have been. That isn't harsh. It is real life. No police officer is going to give him a break in 10 yrs b/c he has an IEP.

But if you treat him with respect and give him appropriate discipline he probably won't be dealing with a cop in 10 years.

If you scream at and humiliate the kid because he tore a piece of paper you are just adding to the problem.

I never said anyone screamed or humiliated this child. But some parents actually say, "But he has an IEP" when their ADHD child gets in trouble as that should give them a "free pass" out of trouble.

I have also seen children like these in the lunch room as some mom yells - "are you listening to me" ... "PICK.UP.YOUR.TRASH.AND.PUT.IT.IN.THE.TRASH"

It's embarrasing how little people understand how these kids are just labeled "problem" "not paying attention" - etc.

I have had to "protect" children mine and others. Everybody needs to just calm down. ADHD kids don't get a "free pass" but they do get lots of "jeers" and "negativitiy" in schools - both active and passive.

This mom is not protecting her kid from normal discipline - the subject is "protecting from HARSH discipline" but you are addressing normal discipline - how do you think this mom should deal with HARSH discipline.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't everyone want to protect their kids from harsh discipline?

[Anonymous]

DS has a behavior plan at school to deal with attention issues - he has an IEP on account of ADHD. He gets smileys for staying on focus/doing work etc. and gets warnings. If he doesn't get a set number of smileys, he spends some time in the principal's office after school. It has worked pretty well but what has made a difference is finding the right medication and his getting greater maturity as well. Although he still has the behavior plan, behavior has not been an issue this year.

I think you can get this into the IEP in a positive way -- creating a behavior plan that you have to approve and that has certain consequences. I don't know what harsh discipline was involved in your case, OP, but you can get the IEP to spell out what methods/consequences will be used. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Those of you who are suggesting the OP is trying to get away with not having her child receive any discipline should be ashamed of yourselves. What responsible parent would want that for their child? Why not extend the benefit of the doubt here and assume the question was asked in good faith?

OP, I would suggest a behavioralist approach. I think your child may need an FBA (Functional Behavioral Analysis) to take a data-driven approach to what sets him off, what the various preceding events are, what the "punishment" is (because when the so-called punishment is actually a reward? like, say, getting to go home? then it's not an effective punishment at all and only reinforces bad behavior. Then the next step is a BIP (Behavior Improvement Plan). This is to modify the escalation behaviors, and also the punishment/reward systems. It should be done by someone who is trained in the field, not just anyone who is on staff.

The right behavioral analysis and supports can make an enormous difference for an impulsive child who hasn't mastered self-control (for his age level).

Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who are suggesting the OP is trying to get away with not having her child receive any discipline should be ashamed of yourselves. What responsible parent would want that for their child? Why not extend the benefit of the doubt here and assume the question was asked in good faith?

OP, I would suggest a behavioralist approach. I think your child may need an FBA (Functional Behavioral Analysis) to take a data-driven approach to what sets him off, what the various preceding events are, what the "punishment" is (because when the so-called punishment is actually a reward? like, say, getting to go home? then it's not an effective punishment at all and only reinforces bad behavior. Then the next step is a BIP (Behavior Improvement Plan). This is to modify the escalation behaviors, and also the punishment/reward systems. It should be done by someone who is trained in the field, not just anyone who is on staff.

The right behavioral analysis and supports can make an enormous difference for an impulsive child who hasn't mastered self-control (for his age level).

Good luck, OP.

12:31 again. Here's an example of why the OP's question and point are to be taken very, VERY seriously:

In Mercer County, Kentucky, nine year old Chris Baker, an Autistic student, was told by his special education aide to climb inside a bag intended for therapeutic purposes as a punishment to "control his autistic behavior" on 14 December 2011. He was placed in the bag with the drawstring tightened and left in the hallway in the school. When his mother, Sandra Baker, was called to the school to get her son, she demanded that he be removed from the bag right away. The teacher struggled to undo the drawstring, and Chris emerged sweaty and non-communicative. According to the teacher, this had been done several times over the last year, but Sandra didn't know until this latest incident.


Full story here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who are suggesting the OP is trying to get away with not having her child receive any discipline should be ashamed of yourselves. What responsible parent would want that for their child? Why not extend the benefit of the doubt here and assume the question was asked in good faith?

OP, I would suggest a behavioralist approach. I think your child may need an FBA (Functional Behavioral Analysis) to take a data-driven approach to what sets him off, what the various preceding events are, what the "punishment" is (because when the so-called punishment is actually a reward? like, say, getting to go home? then it's not an effective punishment at all and only reinforces bad behavior. Then the next step is a BIP (Behavior Improvement Plan). This is to modify the escalation behaviors, and also the punishment/reward systems. It should be done by someone who is trained in the field, not just anyone who is on staff.

The right behavioral analysis and supports can make an enormous difference for an impulsive child who hasn't mastered self-control (for his age level).

Good luck, OP.

12:31 again. Here's an example of why the OP's question and point are to be taken very, VERY seriously:

In Mercer County, Kentucky, nine year old Chris Baker, an Autistic student, was told by his special education aide to climb inside a bag intended for therapeutic purposes as a punishment to "control his autistic behavior" on 14 December 2011. He was placed in the bag with the drawstring tightened and left in the hallway in the school. When his mother, Sandra Baker, was called to the school to get her son, she demanded that he be removed from the bag right away. The teacher struggled to undo the drawstring, and Chris emerged sweaty and non-communicative. According to the teacher, this had been done several times over the last year, but Sandra didn't know until this latest incident.


Full story here.

OP asked about discipline. This is abuse. Not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who are suggesting the OP is trying to get away with not having her child receive any discipline should be ashamed of yourselves. What responsible parent would want that for their child? Why not extend the benefit of the doubt here and assume the question was asked in good faith?

OP, I would suggest a behavioralist approach. I think your child may need an FBA (Functional Behavioral Analysis) to take a data-driven approach to what sets him off, what the various preceding events are, what the "punishment" is (because when the so-called punishment is actually a reward? like, say, getting to go home? then it's not an effective punishment at all and only reinforces bad behavior. Then the next step is a BIP (Behavior Improvement Plan). This is to modify the escalation behaviors, and also the punishment/reward systems. It should be done by someone who is trained in the field, not just anyone who is on staff.

The right behavioral analysis and supports can make an enormous difference for an impulsive child who hasn't mastered self-control (for his age level).

Good luck, OP.

12:31 again. Here's an example of why the OP's question and point are to be taken very, VERY seriously:

In Mercer County, Kentucky, nine year old Chris Baker, an Autistic student, was told by his special education aide to climb inside a bag intended for therapeutic purposes as a punishment to "control his autistic behavior" on 14 December 2011. He was placed in the bag with the drawstring tightened and left in the hallway in the school. When his mother, Sandra Baker, was called to the school to get her son, she demanded that he be removed from the bag right away. The teacher struggled to undo the drawstring, and Chris emerged sweaty and non-communicative. According to the teacher, this had been done several times over the last year, but Sandra didn't know until this latest incident.


Full story here.

OP asked about discipline. This is abuse. Not the same thing.

I don't think it's the same thing, and you may not think it's the same thing. However, it's shockingly clear that not everyone can discern the difference. That Special Ed teacher and her supervisors and administrators evidently found discipline and abuse to be the exact same thing.

Locally and nationally DC's ability to serve Special Needs students has come under fire, because of decades of inability to serve students properly. Are you suggesting that abuse doesn't go on around here? Because that's obviously untrue. The parents of an SN child have every right to ensure that the boundaries of discipline are clear and well-understood by everyone in a position of authority at their child's school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who are suggesting the OP is trying to get away with not having her child receive any discipline should be ashamed of yourselves. What responsible parent would want that for their child? Why not extend the benefit of the doubt here and assume the question was asked in good faith?

12:31 again. Here's an example of why the OP's question and point are to be taken very, VERY seriously:

[i]In Mercer County, Kentucky, nine year old Chris Baker, an Autistic student, was told by his special education aide to climb inside a bag intended for therapeutic purposes as a punishment to "control his autistic behavior" on 14 December 2011. He was placed in the bag with the drawstring tightened and left in the hallway in the school. When his mother, Sandra Baker, was called to the school to get her son, she demanded that he be removed from the bag right away. The teacher struggled to undo the drawstring, and Chris emerged sweaty and non-communicative. According to the teacher, this had been done several times over the last year, but Sandra didn't know until this latest incident.

OP asked about discipline. This is abuse. Not the same thing.

Immediate PP. Why are you on the SN forum? The OP and these posters are right to realize that the line between discipline and abuse can be especially tightly drawn with SN kids. My highly verbal but highly anxious SN kid has been verbally, psychologically, and finally physically abused by educators who supposedly should have known better. DC never told us about any of it. Some of it I witnessed myself (For ex, screaming in the face during a panic attack during which 5-y-o DC was on the floor in fetal position crying). Teacher telling DC she was "tired of him" and to "leave.". They found DC 20 minutes later crying in the hallway. Aides making fun of tics calling names. Banishing DC from the classroom to sit in an unventilated hallway for a week. Etc etc until finally DC was a victim of multiple days of physical and verbal abuse that resulted in PTSD that has taken months to crawl out of. No one has ever gotten in trouble for these fine examples of "discipline.". The last incident was witnessed and DC was questioned by us which is the only reason we found out. At that point DC was 9.

Of course we want our children held to a standard that is appropriate and reachable. I don't want to produce a monster. At the same time, my autistic kid can't handle the same kinds of things other kids can. If they are going to promise DC a FAPE, it needs to be appropriate for DC's needs. If the caFeteria noise and smells are overwhelming and an autistic meltdown occurs, screaming in a Kindergartner's crying face is not going to help anything.

Anyway, OP, we Have a great aide and other behavior support, a very structured day, sensory diet, a system of work and then reward (for ex., getting to write a math test for aide to take during lunch bc DC doesn't eat in cafeteria anymore so they play games during lunch). Agree with suggestion to get an FBA and a BIP in place. The key is that people have to know YOUR kid to know how hard to push and whereto put in some accommodations. My kid works really hard and produces around an equal amount as the other kids. With accommodations such as not being exposed to the chaos (to DC) of the cafeteria, DC's level of behavior is generally the same as most other kids'. if it is clear that a day is setting up to go badly, work is simply done away from the other kids so that a meltdown can be avoided or at least lessened.

Frankly my kid is watched more carefully and more closely "disciplined" than the NT kids. I see all sorts of benign but rough behaviors that my kid wouldn't do bc they would be overwhelming and therefore we don't even go there.

OP, all displine should be about earning privileges, not having them taken away. There should be clear cause and effect. In general I'm anti taking away recess, but maybe it needs to be done sometimes when recess behavior is inappropriate. You have to make sure everyone understands the diagnosis and how it manifests yourself. I trusted that to the school system for too long and that was stupid of me. Any adult in the school can end up in a position to inappropriateLy discipline your child so you have to make sure they all understand what to do (even if it's just do nothing and yell for help). School has largely a nightmare for our family, but now that I have stopped trying to be polite and docile, it's gotten a lot better. My kid's attorney helps a whole lot too!

[Anonymous]

My impulsive ADHD and ASD child was denied recess all the time for his behavior. Screamed at in the cafeteria via bullhorn. "Office recess" lasted 6 weeks at one point.
We felt it was pretty harsh and contributing to worse afternoon behavior. They didn't care...it was years ago but I still hate that school today.
Elem school in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

14:19, I'm so very sorry your DC had to suffer like that. It's so totally unacceptable - for ANY child. My kids are ADHD with anxiety. One of them has MERLD as well. So far, we've been really lucky on the discipline front. My oldest has only had recess withheld once (we're in FCPS). It wasn't just him, it was a number of kids in his class who had to spend recess with their heads on their desks. It was a substitute teacher that did it and I was the only parent to report it to the school. Just goes to show that some people still think THAT is an appropriate disciplinary action. I don't have a problem with the kids having to walk laps during recess or to spend lunch in the classroom but no child- especially those who crave movement - should be denied the opportunity to move their bodies. I reported it to DS's regular and special ed teachers and got an immediate response. The principal and vice principal were made aware and both reach out to me independently to reassure me that they were appalled by what happened, they spoke with the substitute teacher and send a notice to all subs and teachers reminding them of more appropriate responses. I have to say that I was reassured and relieved that this was an abberation at that school.

We working getting DS a FBA for anxiety/emotional regulation issues. I feel so lucky his spec ed teacher is on board and we have a letter from his dev ped indicating that his behavior plan should involve earning rewards, not having them taken away. Again, I have no problem with him having to walk at recess, spend lunch in the classroom or stay after school. There should definitely be consequences to behavior but it must be something that is effective for him.

Wishing you the best, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who are suggesting the OP is trying to get away with not having her child receive any discipline should be ashamed of yourselves. What responsible parent would want that for their child? Why not extend the benefit of the doubt here and assume the question was asked in good faith?

OP, I would suggest a behavioralist approach. I think your child may need an FBA (Functional Behavioral Analysis) to take a data-driven approach to what sets him off, what the various preceding events are, what the "punishment" is (because when the so-called punishment is actually a reward? like, say, getting to go home? then it's not an effective punishment at all and only reinforces bad behavior. Then the next step is a BIP (Behavior Improvement Plan). This is to modify the escalation behaviors, and also the punishment/reward systems. It should be done by someone who is trained in the field, not just anyone who is on staff.

The right behavioral analysis and supports can make an enormous difference for an impulsive child who hasn't mastered self-control (for his age level).

Good luck, OP.

No one was "suggesting" that OP was trying to "get away" with anything. Are YOU extending the benefit of the doubt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS has a behavior plan at school to deal with attention issues - he has an IEP on account of ADHD. He gets smileys for staying on focus/doing work etc. and gets warnings. If he doesn't get a set number of smileys, he spends some time in the principal's office after school. It has worked pretty well but what has made a difference is finding the right medication and his getting greater maturity as well. Although he still has the behavior plan, behavior has not been an issue this year.

I think you can get this into the IEP in a positive way -- creating a behavior plan that you have to approve and that has certain consequences. I don't know what harsh discipline was involved in your case, OP, but you can get the IEP to spell out what methods/consequences will be used. Good luck!

Just curious how old your son is, PP. I'm wondering when the "greater maturity" may kick in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My impulsive ADHD and ASD child was denied recess all the time for his behavior. Screamed at in the cafeteria via bullhorn. "Office recess" lasted 6 weeks at one point.
We felt it was pretty harsh and contributing to worse afternoon behavior. They didn't care...it was years ago but I still hate that school today.
Elem school in MoCo.

So sorry your child had this experience. I have two kids who did ES in the same MoCo ES. For my oldest, it was a nightmare and for my middle child, you couldnt have asked for a better experience. I kind of feel schizophrenic about my feelings about the school and it's hard for me to let go of the negative, which I know I need to do so that my younger son and later my daughter are successful in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has a behavior plan at school to deal with attention issues - he has an IEP on account of ADHD. He gets smileys for staying on focus/doing work etc. and gets warnings. If he doesn't get a set number of smileys, he spends some time in the principal's office after school. It has worked pretty well but what has made a difference is finding the right medication and his getting greater maturity as well. Although he still has the behavior plan, behavior has not been an issue this year.

I think you can get this into the IEP in a positive way -- creating a behavior plan that you have to approve and that has certain consequences. I don't know what harsh discipline was involved in your case, OP, but you can get the IEP to spell out what methods/consequences will be used. Good luck!

Just curious how old your son is, PP. I'm wondering when the "greater maturity" may kick in!

Not the PP to whom you are referring, but another PP whose child had a positive behavior plan. The maturity kicked in for my son at around age 9.5. Because he was held back, that placed him at the beginning of second quarter of third grade. It was a life changing experience - for the good. I never thought I would have seen the day. . .

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you for all the good info. Will definitely look into a FBA and BIP. Had never heard of those before but will ask our school.

It's hard to believe that anyone on a special needs forum would assume I'm trying to set the ground for DC to get away with bad behavior at school. DC has a problem and sometimes the punishment has been public humiliation (in front of his peers) and the teacher mocking or imitating him. Yes, I heard it. I was there. So please, for those of who you doubted me, just get off my back or go write on a different thread. There are plenty more threads to choose from. I don't need your doubt or lack of support for my thread.

As for those who have been very supportive and helpful, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Special needs children sometimes just don't get why what they do is wrong or they simply can not control their impulses as well. While we're all trying to mold their behavior it's important for preserve their self esteem because, God knows, the world is ready and waiting for them and will do a great job of chipping away at their self esteem at some point in their future.