Republicans Applauding Executions

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:I am 14:45. I don't think I am special. I think I sometimes make myself sick reading stories about what other parents of crime victims have gone through, not to mention the victims themselves. (William Petit's experience for example.) I do agree that a miserable life sentence, hopefully with lots of repeated, harsh prison justice thrown in, is a fair punishment. But executions are legal and I am for them. Can't we respectully agree to disagree? Jeff asked why people in the audiuence applauded. And my sincere answer is that at least for me, I think of people like William Petit and his wife and daughters, and it just comes down to I don't have a problem with executions for guilty people.

Who was being disrespectful to you? You asked an inflammatory rhetorical question, and they turned it around on you.

[takoma]

I'm repeating myself here, but isn't Perry's cavalier attitude more important than the audience's, since he's the one running for president. Can you imagine a pro-choice candidate saying he or she has no problem with abortions? They'd say they want to do everything possible to make abortion unnecessary, but not at the expense of letting the government tell a woman and her doctor what she can do to her own body.

I would have been much more impressed if Perry had said that he finds it daunting to decide that someone has to die, but that it's his duty to carry out the law, and that he thinks that with all its problems, it does discourage the most heinous crimes and is therefore necessary. And if he had gone on tho caution his supporters that they should not be applauding the deaths of people, no matter how heinous their crimes, since we are all imperfect, and even the worst of us probably has some virtues, then I would have started to have some respect for the guy.

[jsteele]

takoma wrote:I'm repeating myself here, but isn't Perry's cavalier attitude more important than the audience's, since he's the one running for president.

If you want to focus on Perry, I think the bigger problem is that he probably killed an innocent man and instead of investigating, has done everything he can to prevent an investigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 14:45. I don't think I am special. I think I sometimes make myself sick reading stories about what other parents of crime victims have gone through, not to mention the victims themselves. (William Petit's experience for example.) I do agree that a miserable life sentence, hopefully with lots of repeated, harsh prison justice thrown in, is a fair punishment. But executions are legal and I am for them. Can't we respectully agree to disagree? Jeff asked why people in the audiuence applauded. And my sincere answer is that at least for me, I think of people like William Petit and his wife and daughters, and it just comes down to I don't have a problem with executions for guilty and not guilty people.

There. Fixed that for you.

Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 14:45. I don't think I am special. I think I sometimes make myself sick reading stories about what other parents of crime victims have gone through, not to mention the victims themselves. (William Petit's experience for example.) I do agree that a miserable life sentence, hopefully with lots of repeated, harsh prison justice thrown in, is a fair punishment. But executions are legal and I am for them. Can't we respectully agree to disagree? Jeff asked why people in the audiuence applauded. And my sincere answer is that at least for me, I think of people like William Petit and his wife and daughters, and it just comes down to I don't have a problem with executions for guilty and not guilty people.

There. Fixed that for you.

Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

First, that's what all the cool kids do on the Internet these days. Second, do you really think the fact that "Anonymous" changed "Anonymous's" message is going to cause confusion problems for "Anonymous"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 14:45. I don't think I am special. I think I sometimes make myself sick reading stories about what other parents of crime victims have gone through, not to mention the victims themselves. (William Petit's experience for example.) I do agree that a miserable life sentence, hopefully with lots of repeated, harsh prison justice thrown in, is a fair punishment. But executions are legal and I am for them. Can't we respectully agree to disagree? Jeff asked why people in the audiuence applauded. And my sincere answer is that at least for me, I think of people like William Petit and his wife and daughters, and it just comes down to I don't have a problem with executions for guilty and not guilty people.

There. Fixed that for you.

Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

I like the pp's fix. If you are for the death penalty, you are going to have to accept that innocent people get murdered by the government.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

It's a conventional message board joke, with the word "fixed."

[takoma]

jsteele wrote:

takoma wrote:I'm repeating myself here, but isn't Perry's cavalier attitude more important than the audience's, since he's the one running for president.

If you want to focus on Perry, I think the bigger problem is that he probably killed an innocent man and instead of investigating, has done everything he can to prevent an investigation.

You get no argument from me. The blatant cover-up is incredible, but not as incredible as the fact that it has been out there on the net and has apparently been ignored by the mainstream media. Why is it not a disqualifying scandal?

[Anonymous]

I witnessed an execution in Virginia some years ago. The condemned was my pro bono client. He asked me to attend because, in Virginia at that time (and probably still now), the condemned was not allowed to have anyone present - not family, not friends - except one spiritual advisor and one lawyer.

I knew it would be hard to watch and to sit with him all those hours as we waited until the appointed hour when the guards came to his cell to lead him to the execution chamber, with me trailing along behind. What I was not prepared for, however, is how much the various state officials - all conservative Republicans at that time - and the prison officials acted like they were having a party. There were warm greetings and shiny buttons and laughter among all of those participants as they got ready to watch the "show."

I agree that the law currently provides for the death penalty in some states, which I accept. Unless and until the Supreme Court is prepared to say, once again, more effectively than they did in Furman, that the death penalty violates the Eighth Amendment in all circumstances, this is a matter for the legislature to decide. But I also think that officials charged with carrying out the duty of prosecuting, seeking, and carrying out the death penalty need to understand the need to get it right, and to be sure they ask for it only in appropriate cases, and to consider it a solemn duty to do justice, not just put another check in the win column. My brother-in-law is a prosecutor in another state in the south with the death penalty, and I know quite well that he decides to seek it based on emotion and whether he can come up with a good "tag line" for the jury arguments rather than considering whether the statutory requirements are even met.

It isn't a party. It isn't something to be celebrated. It isn't something to be cheered. Questions about a conviction should not be shoved aside, as they were in my client's case or in Willingham, so they can carve another notch in the state's execution tally for the year. Innocent people get convicted all the time - look at the work the Innocence Project has done that has resulted in the exonerations of many people on and off death row. Innocent people get put to death, too. You think it couldn't ever happen to you. If you are poor, and especially if you are a minority, it can and it has to someone. That isn't justice. Law and order is fine as long as we are actually following the law and ensuring justice. When law and order becomes an excuse to run over all of the safeguards in the system, that's not justice.

I'm very sorry to hear about the PP's experience with her family member, and I hope you have found a way to peace.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:My brother-in-law is a prosecutor in another state in the south with the death penalty, and I know quite well that he decides to seek it based on emotion and whether he can come up with a good "tag line" for the jury arguments rather than considering whether the statutory requirements are even met.

This problem is rampant, unfortunately. Prosecutors are supposed to seek justice, but they tend to just seek conviction no matter what.

Thanks for your post.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 14:45. I don't think I am special. I think I sometimes make myself sick reading stories about what other parents of crime victims have gone through, not to mention the victims themselves. (William Petit's experience for example.) I do agree that a miserable life sentence, hopefully with lots of repeated, harsh prison justice thrown in, is a fair punishment. But executions are legal and I am for them. Can't we respectully agree to disagree? Jeff asked why people in the audiuence applauded. And my sincere answer is that at least for me, I think of people like William Petit and his wife and daughters, and it just comes down to I don't have a problem with executions for guilty and not guilty people.

There. Fixed that for you.

Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

First, that's what all the cool kids do on the Internet these days. Second, do you really think the fact that "Anonymous" changed "Anonymous's" message is going to cause confusion problems for "Anonymous"?

I don't think what you wrote is the point. Of course, I don't think the change is going to cause confusion problems. It just doesn't seem right to me to change wording like that--wording that changes the intent and meaning of the original poster.

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

It's a conventional message board joke, with the word "fixed."

I didn't know that--thanks for clarifying.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 14:45. I don't think I am special. I think I sometimes make myself sick reading stories about what other parents of crime victims have gone through, not to mention the victims themselves. (William Petit's experience for example.) I do agree that a miserable life sentence, hopefully with lots of repeated, harsh prison justice thrown in, is a fair punishment. But executions are legal and I am for them. Can't we respectully agree to disagree? Jeff asked why people in the audiuence applauded. And my sincere answer is that at least for me, I think of people like William Petit and his wife and daughters, and it just comes down to I don't have a problem with executions for guilty and not guilty people.

There. Fixed that for you.

Do you want other posters changing what you've written? Whether or not I agree with someone, I think what you did was wrong.

First, that's what all the cool kids do on the Internet these days. Second, do you really think the fact that "Anonymous" changed "Anonymous's" message is going to cause confusion problems for "Anonymous"?

Jeff, I am sure you would agree that cool kids who bully are perfectly fine too? Lame all around. The death penalty is like legalized abortion - reasonable people disagree. It's the holier than thou my way or the highway approach (which this thread personifies) that is really a sad state of affairs in our Democracy.

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:This problem is rampant, unfortunately. Prosecutors are supposed to seek justice, but they tend to just seek conviction no matter what.

Thanks for your post.

Do any of you remember the story on MSN about the woman who was 7 months in prison waiting for trial because her boyfriend framed her up for crimes she did not do. He got his friends to claim she had tried to hijack them or something.
The police did not do a proper investigation and fell for it and the prosecutors were not interested in her innocense

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff, I am sure you would agree that cool kids who bully are perfectly fine too?.

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. The previous poster engaged in a tactic that is common on almost every forum on the Internet. I'm actually not a fan of it, but plenty of people seem to think is pretty nifty. Just like answering posts with "this". I think that's stupid too, but what can I do about it?

Anonymous wrote:Lame all around. The death penalty is like legalized abortion - reasonable people disagree. It's the holier than thou my way or the highway approach (which this thread personifies) that is really a sad state of affairs in our Democracy.

Reasonable people can disagree about the death penalty. However, I don't think reasonable people applaud someone for having presided over more than 200 executions. I also think reasonable people show concern about the possible execution of an innocent man and interference into the investigation of that execution.