Hey older moms - does the SAHM vs WOHM thing go away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me it had gotten worse as I have gotten older.

I think this may be dependent upon the school type (private vs. public).

I, too, found more SAHMs vs. WOHMs around early elementary (public) school, but once the after-school activities really started (1st/2nd grade), there were more WOHMs (and WOHDs) around. I found that the working parents would tend to cluster together as we had similar issues (especially centered around activity schedules and traffic!). However, I haven't seen the "us vs. them" thing since Kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

i sm curious to know - for people who have lived in cities other than dc, does this SAHM vs. WOHM paradigm exist more, less...?

so for instance, is this friction that you describe indicative of the fact that we live very insane lives in DC (traffic, long work hours, etc, etc) than say, if this were portland, oregon?

i am a very new mother and WOHM full time but the only friction i've experienced with this choice thus far has been with myself and the internal dialogue of hoping i am doing things right both at work and home.

maybe things will change once my daughter is in elementary school and i am exposed to more SAHMs.

[Anonymous]

I just hate when either side feels smug and superior about their situation!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it had gotten worse as I have gotten older.

I think this may be dependent upon the school type (private vs. public).

I, too, found more SAHMs vs. WOHMs around early elementary (public) school, but once the after-school activities really started (1st/2nd grade), there were more WOHMs (and WOHDs) around. I found that the working parents would tend to cluster together as we had similar issues (especially centered around activity schedules and traffic!). However, I haven't seen the "us vs. them" thing since Kindergarten.

My daughter's in private, and b/c the school is small, I see the "us versus them" issue continue through the lower grades. Working moms do cluster together. We have more in common. Likes attract likes. We don't do weekday playdates. We try to act as back up for pick up and other activities (in case we're out of work late or traffic is an issue), and we tend to volunteer behind the scenes. no lunch or playground duty for me! But I have designed school brochures.

So although I do have acquaintances who are SAHMs, I naturally gravitate toward working moms. And even when I did SAH (not by choice), I kept my friendships with my working pals and wasn't really into the SAHM scene.

truth - not being snarky
I think I just like the "split" lifestyle!

Maybe it's a personality thing. I find it hard to cross over - even when I was on the other side.

[Anonymous]

I work full time but the last few years my office is in my home. Its not perfect and i don't make nearly what i used to. You give up a lot when you work out of the house vs the office. Nice lunches, friends, alone time in the car, dressing nice but i don't know if i can go back to it. Which is my next struggle because i know i can't go any further as is. I have 3 kids and a babysitter when they are not in school (although i may drop the babysitter next year because they come to me with their issues anyway).

I guess i consider myself half way between a SAHM and WOHM. It works for me for now. I think thats key.

[Anonymous]

I honestly never thought the "debate" was that bad. The biggest difference is that the SAHMs have a very close and bonded "network" that I as a full time WOHM simply don't share. Even though some of those SAHMs are now WOHM pt, their friendships are solid and hard to break into. I do have to say that I'm relieved that I don't have to reinvent myself now that my kids are all in full day school, but to each her own. Part of the reason I think I've not had a hard time with SAHMs is that I'm secure in my choice to WOH FT, and it's nothing to me one way or another if other moms SAH.

[Anonymous]

I never worried about anyone else -- WOHM. I am mid-50s and have always tried to live my own life and let others live theirs. I have friends from both "camps" is you will.

[Anonymous]

My closest friends have always worked and have managed to be terrific moms, so we are a great support and cheering section for each other. I also have friends who have not worked since their kids were born, and now that our children are teenagers, they seem to be trying to fill a void. At my kids' private school, there are some SAHM's who are not having an easy time letting go of their children, and the other kids notice it. I've even heard them joke about moms who need to "get a life." I guess my take on the whole thing is that I respect the choices every family makes, and try not to judge, since every family is different. However, I do wonder about women who step out of the working world permanently at such a young age. If you don't have family money or another independent source of income, it's leaving yourself very vulnerable.

[Anonymous]

I love this post. It's good to hear this from someone on this forum. In looking back, I'm glad I stayed in my field b/c I've seen so many friends divorce - searching desperately to find a job just to support themselves and their kids.

So it's a very important message for young mothers to hear.

b/c you never know what life throws at you

Anonymous wrote:My closest friends have always worked and have managed to be terrific moms, so we are a great support and cheering section for each other. I also have friends who have not worked since their kids were born, and now that our children are teenagers, they seem to be trying to fill a void. At my kids' private school, there are some SAHM's who are not having an easy time letting go of their children, and the other kids notice it. I've even heard them joke about moms who need to "get a life." I guess my take on the whole thing is that I respect the choices every family makes, and try not to judge, since every family is different. However, I do wonder about women who step out of the working world permanently at such a young age. If you don't have family money or another independent source of income, it's leaving yourself very vulnerable.

[Anonymous]

As an older mom, I also worry about the young SAHMs who seem so confident in their financial arrangement with their husbands. They have yet, perhaps, to witness bitter divorces or infidelity among couples we swore were paragons of marriage. These women sincerely believe, and naively, think that such would never happen to them. They often assume that their husbands have taken care of financial arrangements only to find out, in the middle of divorcing, how little money would be available to them and to their children, and how long it would take to actually obtain those funds. As someone who has witnessed this first hand to several acquaintances, I am very grateful to have WOTH. Divorce is devastating; having financial independence cushions the blow.

By the way, I have several friends who are SAHMs, even though I have always been a FT WOTH mother. I don't think that work status bears upon friendships as much as personality and shared interests/outlooks, geographic proximity, and your children liking each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My closest friends have always worked and have managed to be terrific moms, so we are a great support and cheering section for each other. I also have friends who have not worked since their kids were born, and now that our children are teenagers, they seem to be trying to fill a void. At my kids' private school, there are some SAHM's who are not having an easy time letting go of their children, and the other kids notice it. I've even heard them joke about moms who need to "get a life." I guess my take on the whole thing is that I respect the choices every family makes, and try not to judge, since every family is different. However, I do wonder about women who step out of the working world permanently at such a young age. If you don't have family money or another independent source of income, it's leaving yourself very vulnerable.

Kids saying that someone "needs to get a life"? This is the worst thing I have ever heard. Those kids heard it from their parents.

I have had it both ways. I worked full time when my kids were younger. I felt I was superior to SAHMs. Then I lost my job. I decided to use it an an opportunity to spend time with kids. I found the initial adjustment difficult but after a while I began to change. Now I know that I would not trade the time I had with my kids for anything else. Of course I did not always like it, but I know I will never regret it. When I worked I did not know what I was missing, although at the time I did not find the idea of spending most of my days with three hyper kids too appealing. Now I would never judge others on their choices. It seems to me that it is the younger mothers that do it.

[Anonymous]

PP, you must not have teenagers if that's the worst thing you've ever heard. I'm not saying it's nice, I'm just saying it's what I've heard.

[Anonymous]

Since my oldest was born -- 22 years ago -- I have been a fulltime WOHM (for 2 years), SAHM (for 10 years) PT WAHM (6 tears) and PT WIHM (4 yeras). I'm very relieved to say that as time has passed and my kids have gotten older (youngest is now 13), there seems to be less tension about this issue among the women I know. In part, as we've become more seasoned as moms we've realized that "outcomes" have little to do with where you strike the work-life balance -- just as they have little to do with breastfeeding, toilet training methods, Montessori nursery school, Suzuki piano lessons, travel team soccer, single sex schools, or any of the issues we agonized when our children were younger.

As far as OP's second question -- whether WOHMs experience more stress early on and SAHMs more stress as their kids get older, I'll say "yes" to the first but "no" to the second. I can think of a couple of reasons for this -- first, many of the women I know have gone back to work at least part-time by this point in their evolution as moms; second, those who haven't are some of the most solid, comfortable in their own skin people I know. They don't have to "get a life" (which, BTW, I agree the kids whom a PP cited have probably heard from their parents) b/c they actually tend to have more interesting and varied lives than most of the folks I know -- men and women -- who work full-time. Many SAHMs actually do quite a bit of work outside their homes -- as volunteers --, they have time to pursue passions that are not related to paid work -- I know quite a few who are talented artists, musicians, cooks, gardeners, and athletes; they keep up with friends and family, providing a vital and caring support network as parents age, and friends experience health crises; they read and are current on the news, they are active in politics at the grass roots level, they lead their spiritual communities in churches, synagogues and other faith communities, etc.

[Anonymous]

As always it depends on whether you live in a neighborhood that scews one way or another.

Where I live, there are very few SAHMs with elementary and older kids. I do find that the few SAHMs will always comment on how they want to go to back work, are looking, plan to start looking, or can't find anything. The comments are unprovoked and they bring it up not me. I remember setting up a playdate a year ago for my 5 year old. The mom let me know that she has a live in nanny and stays at home. The nanny part was relevant because that was who would be picking up her daughter. She went on and on justifying that she does a lot of volunteering at the school, couldn't go back to work right now because her youngest was 4, and on and on. I didn't care. I just wanted to trade emergency type contact, let her know that we had a pool and was she comfortable having her daughter swim if I was in the water with them or prefer for the girls to stay out of the pool, and whether her child had any food allergies or off limit snacks or anything. I get the feeling that the insecurity level is high for SAHMs in areas with few SAHMs.

One of my co-workers lives in an area that has mostly SAHMs even with school aged and older kids. She complains that the PTA and school activities are designed to exclude the working moms, the SAHMs have a clique, and she still perceives getting annoying comments from them. She feels 'guilted' that she can't be at school everyday but says that their PTA activities have far more social stuff for the moms than the classroom volunteering.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all of these interesting comments.

I think 10:17 raises an issue that is almost a whole separate topic - the time that SAHMs are able to devote to their community and schools. While I'm a part-time working mom who loves her job and gladly works, I also lament that I don't have time to do the things that my own mom, as a SAHM, was able to throw herself into, related to her church and community. Things like baking things for new neighbors, sending gifts to family members, working to improve the local schools, etc - the traditional woman's domain. Of course many women are happy to have nothing to do with this now, and these things bring their own burdens and confinements, but do the community and social fabric suffer when women no longer do these things. Because men sure as hell aren't going to bring a lasagna to the new family up the block.

However, these days it seems to me that most SAHMs aren't actually baking cookies for the neighbors and taking care of the community so much as throwing themselves into their own nuclear family. I could be wrong about this, but I just don't see the "civic involvement" among SAHMs that I think there was a generation or so ago. Maybe this is because there's not the same SAHM community.