Is this taking "logical consequences" too far? (long)

[Anonymous]

12:28 again....Just reading some of the earlier comments. I didn't like giving my kid "consequences" for not doing homework, so I turned into a nag. Which is why I asked for help.

I do think if your kid has to suffer such consequences of missed family time that is too harsh. Also, if you take away electronics, then the focus is on the electronics and not on the homework.

You have to help your kid self-motivate, or your kid could end up like the adult that a pp mentions: one who can't handle life.

[Anonymous]

Does he have a learning disability (not sure if this is the correct phrase??) that is getting in the way of getting his homework done? I knew someone who didn't like school and homework and later they learned he had dyslexia.

[Anonymous]

Op I am in exactly your boat. My child is in third grade but homework really does count for his grade, and his grads have suffered greatly this year. We've done all sorts of consequences for failure to get hw done. Nothing seems to motivate him for long, not even remiving all computer priviledges for 5 weeks! So I don't think it is just a motivation problem. I think my son has some kind of executive function issues, and I am trying to work with him on this.

He needs to realize that getting work done is within his control, but he has to want to do it, and he has to actually get started doing it, and he has to not get distracted doing it, and then he has to turn in the finished homework. He needs to learn these skills. Me just forcing him to do his work doesn't help him develop these skills. We need to figure out which skills he is missing, an dhelp him improve them. (Actually doing the work isn't hard for him -- it is just hard remembering the Hw and settling down to do it.)

Things that might help executive function suppsedly include aerobic exercise and mindfulness meditation.

[Anonymous]

Those aren't really consequences though -- they are punishments.

[Anonymous]

OP, Why do you see is everything so black and white?

I agree that your strategy this year didn't work, and created a horrible environment. Is the only alternative "hands off?"

Also, I would think about the lesson you are teaching when you pull him from sports practice/games. The other kids depend on him, and when he doesn't show because of homework you are teaching him that his own issues always transcend group obligations -- not something you want him to take to adulthood.

Perhaps you can set a reasonable amount of time, and then what isn't done isn't done?

Good luck. It isn't easy and it just gets harder.

[Anonymous]

She probably made him miss sports practice because if you don't get your HW done before the evening event, then there won't be time to finish it after before bed.

I'm one of the PPs who had the same problem with my child. The difficulty is, you think that the child will learn from these consequences. They made my child very upset, but he was unable to either remember, or to alter his behvaior the next time, even though he KNEW I would still apply the consequence (or yes, punishment) consistently, each and every time.

That means that he was motivated to finishe his homework, but still couldn't start it, or follow it through, or finishe it.

So there is somethine else going on.

[Anonymous]

OP some ways to help a child with getting homework done if he needs help with the underlying skills:

Time Management:

http://www.ldonline.org/article/23676


Summary of Executive Function lack skills:


http://www.ldonline.org/article/24880

[Anonymous]

OP - I would suggest you take a hands off approach but make him aware at the beginning of the year that you are giving him responsibility for getting his homework done and you expect him to do it.

You do need to set up consequences so that he knows it is an expectation but they are not tied on a daily basis to the homework because that is his responsibility.

So if he wants anything extra = friends over, a fun outing, a new toy, an allowance etc...he needs to show you his homework is done. No monitoring, no nagging. Just when he makes a request - ask him if his homework was done for the week - if he says no - just say okay well ask me again if Joey can come over when it is done and walk away. No power struggles, no arguments, no nagging. His choices = the outcomes.

I wouldn't take away time outside, sports team practices...just extras. Make sure he is clear on this at the beginning of the year. If he doesn't do his homework - fine, life will be a little more boring, any nagging can come from the teacher.

[Anonymous]

OP, we had a similar problem with our first grader. We tried removing/withholding things, etc., and it became an epic battle of threats every single night. We gave up and let him not do homework, and caught hell from his teacher who wanted him to do homework.

What we did that works: We locked our computer, and then rewarded him with computer time. Five minutes for every sheet of homework (yeah loads of worksheets, every night) completed. It works great! He LOVEs computer games, and can't do them unless he does his homework. He actually is disappointed on days he doesn't have homework.

Can you find a similar incentive for your child? This takes away the negative actions of threatening and nagging.

I agree that logical consequences don't work in a situation like this. By letting your child experience the logical consequence of disappointing his teacher, you are getting your child into the bad habit of doing no homwork and not doing what's expected of him at school -- both no-nos. My child didn't care that his teacher was disappointed.

Also, my child is very smart and gets extremely bored by all the worksheets, dull reading, etc. Can you talk with your child's teacher about giving him some more interesting work to do? We tried this approach and it didn't work because our public school is so mired in testing and a set curriculum that even if the teacher wanted to, she couldn't change it.

I have parental controls on our computer, so my child doesn't have access to any inappropriate games, and this incentive has worked very well. I wish we'd figured it out sooner.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you should google "scaffolding"--basically the best way to help kids problem solve. I would sit down with DS and tell him, "The way we've handled homework this year is not working. You aren't happy, and we aren't happy. I want you to tell me everything you don't like about the way we've handled homework this year." Then listen without judgment or response and take notes. Tell him, "I'll be thinking about this over the summer. We'll talk again before school starts. If you have any ideas, you can write them down or tell me about it."

Then I'd leave it alone until a few weeks before school. then you can have a sit-down and come up with a solution together, including consequences that you all discuss together. I agree with a PP that consequences need to happen without conversation.

I think you need to agree on a specific start time and end time when he will plan on doing homework each night. For that time, you will be available to help. When that time starts, I'd go find him and simply say, "It's X o'clock. I will be reading a book in the living room if you need help with your homework." If he gets right to work and it takes longer than expected, you might make yourself available for more time, but if he procrastinates, I'd just say, "Homework time is over. If you have anything left, you'll have to do it without help."

[Anonymous]

No, I do not think that it is appropriate for him to just accept the consequences of not doing homework at his age. He is just at the stage where he is developing work habits, and it does not sound like the consequences from his teacher and the school will be sufficient to enable him to do that. I would not be checking the homework for correctness (unless he specifically asks for help) but only for whether he completed it or did not complete it. It sounds like part of the problem is that his difficult behavior in response to being required to do the homework is upsetting you. That is understandable, but he needs to learn that completing his homework is non-negotiable, and whatever behavior he exhibits in response will not change this. You should definitely not be "nagging" him, because this sets up the idea that you have to tell him to do it more than once - the plan should be one time telling him, then whatever consequence you decide for not listening. If he is upset or difficult in response to the consequence, that is too bad for him. He is the one who chose it.
However, if you think that he has some sort of condition (ADD, executive functioning) that renders him unable to do the homework, it would probably be a good idea to consult with a specialist for some tips on how to handle it. There may be different ways that would make better sense to handle it for a child with special needs.

[Anonymous]

MS teacher here. Please do not take an entirely hands-off approach, as it will sabotage your DS further down the line, IMO. While at my school, homework does not count near enough to fail you (I teach in FCPS, and the MOST homework can be is 10%...I actually do not count it at all in my classroom for various reasons), at the MS (and HS) level, not doing your homework really does affect you in class. It is practice and reinforcement of concepts learned during the school day, and needs to be completed so you are on the same level with others in your class. The student who does not do his/her homework quickly finds themselves at a disadvantage to others in their class, needs to be re-taught concepts that others do not, and in general, slows down the entire pace of the class, so everyone loses. In addition, as one pp pointed out, as your DS gets older, he will lack the necessary study skills that will help him succeed. Not doing homework in ES may not seem like a big deal, but when they hit some of the more challenging subjects in school (Algebra, Chemistry, upper level english which requires a lot of writing, etc), they will not have the skills in place to do work outside of class. Lastly, if you or your son have any aspirations for advanced AP or IB courses in HS (I know, it's far ahead), he will ABSOLUTELY be not only expected, but required to do work outside of school. If you do not help him instill good work habits and study skills now, the battle will be much harder when he is older, and those grades do "count"...colleges will see them. When parents want to know what they can do to help their student do better in my class, I always start by taking a look at their homework completion, and counsel the parents to be involved and make sure there is follow-through in that area.

I like to compare it to sports. Even kids who are naturally gifted in a sport still practice to be better. They may not always feel like it, but they know in order to be the best athlete they can be, they have to put in the work. Now, obviously, most kids find practicing their favorite sport more fun than doing homework, but the principle behind both is the same, and helps them understand that teachers (well, the good ones) don't assign hw as just busy work. It is something necessary to help them do better in their classes.

It might help to find out what about hw your DS does not care for. Does he object to ALL hw, or just what he perceives as busy work? A lot of kids, especially the bright ones, question the need for "worksheets", which I agree with (except in math, where repetitive work is necessary to help cement information)...a good homework assignment is designed to actually further the knowledge learned, rather than just regurgitate...

Other than that, I agree with what pps have said-involved your son in the decisions, give him an area to do his work with zero distractions, and instill in him a work ethic so that when he reaches MS and HS, he will not be one of the bright but unmotivated students!

GL

[Anonymous]

A couple of my kids have ADHD and/or learning disabilities. We have a lot of challenges related to homework. Until our kids can get a routine down, we have to provide more support than parents of typical kids. We are definitely not helicopter parents but it takes quite a while for our kids develop appropriate techniques to manage their own time and organize themselves. I learned a lot from Ann Dolin author of Homework Made Simple http://www.amazon.com/Homework-Made-Simple-Solutions-Stress-Free/dp/0971460981 . She's spoken at a number of ADHD events I attended. You might think about it.

In addition to speaking to your DS's teacher, you might also think about speaking to one of your school's special ed teachers. They've probably seen every homework/organization challenge there is and could help you develop an appropriate program in partnership with your DS's teacher.

[Anonymous]

OP here--thanks everyone; this is all helpful.

[Anonymous]

OP, my 9 year old 4th grader has some executive function issues around homework as well. For her the work is also very easy and that in many ways makes it harder for her to get motivated to do it.

We have an unpredictable evening schedule throughout the week, so every Monday I ask her, what homework do you have this week and what is the plan for getting it done? And then I have her actually write it all out on a calendar on Monday night. She sometimes chooses to do it all on Monday and Tuesday. Other times she will choose to stretch it out ("I have 30 vocabulary words to write definitions for and it's due in 10 days, so I wll do 3 a night"). In which case I might remind her "you have Girl Scouts on Thursday and a sleepover on Saturday, so maybe factor that into your plan".

I find this works much better for her because then it is her plan and she owns it. I do help her by reminding her to write out the plan and asking her when she wants to work on homework each night. She varies it from night to night depending on her mood and other things going on. I also don't ask to see it when it is done because that makes her nervous and I do trust her that when she says it is done that it is done.

A PP mentioned having a caddy with all the supplies and that was helpful for her as well. she was wasting a lot of time locating scissors, tape, pencil, sharpener, glue stick, colored pencils, dictionary, etc. We got a caddy and put everything all in one place and now we have eliminated all of those issues.

So this exact plan may not work for you, but I think a big part of it is figuring out 1) a system that they own, 2) putting the system in place, and 3) reminding them to use it.