Turning down HGC?

[Anonymous]

I don't interact with the principal in our school either and I just figured that was par for the course, but sometimes I wonder if it's a sign he's not that good a principal.

[Anonymous]

At the TPMS magnet there are a number of families we know, including ours, who were happy with the existing ES and didn't even apply to an HGC. Our family and these other families had our kids in immersion, and felt our kids were sufficiently challenged (doing advanced math in a foreign language, great language skills) and the peer group was great. So I guess my point is, it's not absolutely necessary to go to an HGC for your gifted child to be challenged and happy.

Of course, it's almost impossible to know if your current ES does as well as the HGC on measures like challenge and peer group. So the advice to try the HGC and then leave if you're not happy seems sound.

[Anonymous]

CCES HGC parent. Our DC also had a great experience with the center. All of the center teachers are fabulous (as well as many of the regular program CCES teachers). One thing that I was particularly glad about was that the teachers made allowances for our child's extreme interest in one subject matter and excused DC from parts of the HGC curriculum that DC already knew and allowed independent work instead.

Also, great support from the principal for skipping many capable girls in math (in both the center and non-center classes) -- which I thought rocked considering how often girls are left behind in math. I know many oppose skipping, but many of the girls seem to have done very well. Skipping was suggested by the principal/teachers, but entirely at the discretion of parents.

Peer group was excellent, both in terms of providing friendship and in terms of providing other examples of extreme academic interests across subject areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the TPMS magnet there are a number of families we know, including ours, who were happy with the existing ES and didn't even apply to an HGC. Our family and these other families had our kids in immersion, and felt our kids were sufficiently challenged (doing advanced math in a foreign language, great language skills) and the peer group was great. So I guess my point is, it's not absolutely necessary to go to an HGC for your gifted child to be challenged and happy.

Of course, it's almost impossible to know if your current ES does as well as the HGC on measures like challenge and peer group. So the advice to try the HGC and then leave if you're not happy seems sound.

...and our immersion child was not sufficiently challenged, and positively BLOOMED in the HGC.

It's a very individual thing.

[Anonymous]

Another immersion parent here whose child thrived at an HGC and was not sufficiently challenged or understood at the immersion school.

I honestly don't know how a regular MCPS school, even immersion, could begin to match the HGC in terms of challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another immersion parent here whose child thrived at an HGC and was not sufficiently challenged or understood at the immersion school.

I honestly don't know how a regular MCPS school, even immersion, could begin to match the HGC in terms of challenge.

Immersion programs let your kid do math 2 years ahead. Plus we loved the brain challenge of working in a foreign language. Plus all the activities DC does outside of school are challenging in various ways.

And finally, a friend's kid went through a HCG and spent a full year filling in state maps with different colors and labelling the state capitols, and they weren't very impressed.

Thanks for implying that my kid at the TPMS magnet must be subpar, however. FWIW, DC is getting straight A's at the TPMS magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another immersion parent here whose child thrived at an HGC and was not sufficiently challenged or understood at the immersion school.

I honestly don't know how a regular MCPS school, even immersion, could begin to match the HGC in terms of challenge.

Immersion programs let your kid do math 2 years ahead. Plus we loved the brain challenge of working in a foreign language. Plus all the activities DC does outside of school are challenging in various ways.

And finally, a friend's kid went through a HCG and spent a full year filling in state maps with different colors and labelling the state capitols, and they weren't very impressed.

Thanks for implying that my kid at the TPMS magnet must be subpar, however. FWIW, DC is getting straight A's at the TPMS magnet.

No one implied that your TPMS magnet kid must be subpar. PPs are saying that HGC or not is a very individual choice. Just because the immersion was enough for your immersion kid doesn't mean it was enough for mine (who also worked two years ahead in math), or PP's, or anyone else's.

Your state map anecdote is just silly. If you haven't had a kid in the HGC, you are not in a position to opine on what it is like.

[Anonymous]

9:42 again. Thinking it over, the main point is that my kid was HAPPY at the immersion program, so we saw no reason to leave.

DC had great friends in the immersion program, they played on sports teams together. DC and we noticed some differences for example in the level of persistence, but in the end, DC was happy.

So we weren't in search of a more accepting peer group.

And, as I pointed out, there was actually sufficient challenge. Maybe folks who left in 4th grade didn't get to do math two years ahead, or read more advanced books in the target language, so they didn't see the challenge. By it's nature, 4th and 5th grades in any school have more homework, challenge etc. than 1-3rd grade.

OK, and I'll confess. I may have kids who are very smart. But I get driven a little nuts by posters who claim that their kids are such special snowflakes that they can't possibly thrive in high-normal classrooms. The whining by the parents of gifted kids is a reason we're so hated on DCUM. Maybe it's just me....

[Anonymous]

Oh goodie! (Picks up bowl of popcorn.)

How long before someone comes on here to tell 9:51 that her kid must be just normal? Otherwise she'd understand the horrible problems facing the moms of gifted kids ... oops, I mean the gifted kids themselves. Of course this isn't just about the moms!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No one implied that your TPMS magnet kid must be subpar. PPs are saying that HGC or not is a very individual choice. Just because the immersion was enough for your immersion kid doesn't mean it was enough for mine (who also worked two years ahead in math), or PP's, or anyone else's.

Your state map anecdote is just silly. If you haven't had a kid in the HGC, you are not in a position to opine on what it is like.

And yet the state map anecdote is true. The parents of the kid in question, people we've known well for 15 years, told us about it. Why is believing good friends sillier than taking advice from total strangers on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Hi PP. I have one kid who stayed in immersion and one who left for HGC, so I think I'm in a good position to compare.

I think if your kid was happy and challenged in immersion, you made the right decision. Sounds like you did.

I hear you about the "special snowflakes" perception. But the thing is, that's what the HGCs are for: kids who can't thrive in a regular classroom. And like it or not, those kids exist and they have a right to an appropriate education, too. If I seek out those circumstances for my child because he needs them, that doesn't make me a whiner.

As for working ahead in math, that's a very interesting question. Most kids at the HGC work two years are more ahead in math -- but I think that's the easy part for regular elementary schools to handle -- they just move them up a grade or two. So for kids who are a couple of grades ahead in math, they get the challenge they need.

It's kids who need more challenge in the more "verbal" subjects who are not readily served in the home classroom. And schools can't or won't move them up to the next grade level. It's not realistic to expect teachers to accommodate them in their grade-level class without a lot of independent work, which can be isolating and/or dreadfully boring for a child who wants to discuss and learn in a group. (How many times did I hear that my child could "teach the other children" to get the stimulation he craved ....)

That's why we moved one of our kids, and it was the right move.

We're all trying to make the best decisions for our kids and find the right place for them. Like it or not, there are kids in the 99%+ group for intellectual abilities and they do need something different. A high-normal classroom might not do it for them.

If you read up on issues like depression among kids in that group, you'd see that for some children this is a necessity. Calling them "special snowflakes" is kind of mean.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Tx to those of you with examples of kids who did just fine outside the HGC. I really needed to hear them.

In the end, we did decide to turn down HGC. Our child will get the 2 yrs ahead math he needs at home school and he really isn't the type of personality who wants to discuss and be verbal.

He was really turned off to HGC during the visit and is extremely happy at his home school, which can provide him what he needs, including peer group and afterschool activities that he loves. Hopefully in trusting his instincts, we're doing the right thing. I'm sure we'll never really know, but it is only elementary school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9:42 again. Thinking it over, the main point is that my kid was HAPPY at the immersion program, so we saw no reason to leave.

DC had great friends in the immersion program, they played on sports teams together. DC and we noticed some differences for example in the level of persistence, but in the end, DC was happy.

So we weren't in search of a more accepting peer group.

And, as I pointed out, there was actually sufficient challenge. Maybe folks who left in 4th grade didn't get to do math two years ahead, or read more advanced books in the target language, so they didn't see the challenge. By it's nature, 4th and 5th grades in any school have more homework, challenge etc. than 1-3rd grade.

OK, and I'll confess. I may have kids who are very smart. But I get driven a little nuts by posters who claim that their kids are such special snowflakes that they can't possibly thrive in high-normal classrooms. The whining by the parents of gifted kids is a reason we're so hated on DCUM. Maybe it's just me....

There are, in fact, kids who are so gifted that they cannot thrive in a high-normal classroom. They are not special snowflakes; they are gifted.

There are also kids who struggle in a high-normal classroom because of learning disabilities, medical issues, low IQs, and other challenges.

All of these kids are entitled to an education appropriate to their needs.

"Special snowflakes" is just incendiary and an impediment to a rational, productive conversation.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but OP does need to hear that very bright kids can thrive outside an HGC. In fact, she says she's looking for evidence on this very issue.

What's "an impediment to rational, productive conversation" is trying to shut down posters by saying you don't see how kids can be challenged outside an HGC. (And I notice we're dancing around the high/profoundly question, but I think we can agree we're talking about the top of the spectrum.) I'm talking to you, 11:19.

It's a fact that some very bright kids can thrive outside an HGC. Some of the issues people have talked about on this thread seem to be social rather than academic. People here have talked about peer groups, for example. But if the kid in question is happy, has friends, is not ostracized, and is challenged inside and outside of school -- then what purpose is served by yanking the kid out of his or her home school and away from friends?

Or do you really think it is all about doing higher and higher math/english/whatever within a school-structured context?

Or are their ways to challenge a kid outside an HGC, within and outside of school, that keep the kid challenged and happy? My kid challenges himself, for example by watching certain types NYU classes on YouTube.

Sometimes, granted, it depends on the kid's level of motivation and persistence.

[Anonymous]

We turned down a HGC for our highly gifted DS. Three reasons: the fourth and fifth grade teams at our home school were excellent, and known for finding ways to challenge kids, not just in math but in written language and extracurriculars; the peer group for DS's year was especially strong with a lot of very smart kids (three turned down the HGC, none went); and DS was happy where he was and negative about the long commute and higher work-load. We never regretted it.