support for ADHD teen with low motivation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We struggled with the exact same thing. When you say The Self Driven Child wasn’t helpful, is it because you backed off and your child went ahead and floundered and failed? That, essentially, is the price and the process. You keep offering support, EF coaches, and restrict distractions like screen time, but you don’t use your own motivation to replace theirs. That’s the idea, anyway.

We did essentially follow that guidance. Smart kid with dyslexia and ADHD who simply would not do all the things he’d have to do to get good grades. Refused to go to office hours, retake tests, organize his papers, or do the bare minimum to get grown ups off his back. He graduated with a 3.0, and off he went to college.

Where…he has done really well. He almost failed one class his first semester, which would have meant losing his spot on his sports team. So he asked for help, found out for the first time that “studying” means hours, not minutes, for each exam, and he pulled himself out of the ditch. He now has a better GPA than he did in high school and he is so much happier. He isn’t going to win any academic awards or go to medical school, probably, but I really do think he’s finally got (most) of his stuff together. He had to do it on his time, and give me heartache while he did.

I know other parents of similar kids who did much more scaffolding and forcing work (you can’t force motivation, only compliance). Their kids absolutely got better grades than mine did, without question. They also seem to have made it through their Freshman years intact. But I didn’t fight with my kid, or have power struggles, or have to figure out incentives and punishments. It was a relatively happy high school experience, and after a really rough middle school experience I am grateful for that.

Good luck. These kids are not easy to parent!

I struggled a bit with the Self Driven Child but came around to it after a while. It’s not any sort of Bible of course but I think the basic lesson of letting a kid have autonomy is solid - and for our kids it involves allowing them to fail (a little) which is scary but necessary. And personally I am not the kind of parent who really can handle getting that involved in the tedium of 8th grade homework so my own laziness was something I could leverage for better or for worse. The result is that I was able to see my kid slowly and imperfectly start to get it of his own accord. I think for our kids, what we have to be attentive to is when they actually are missing a piece of information wholly - like don’t know how to play the game of doing retakes, don’t know how to access a platform, maybe lack some social skills to reach out to teachers for clarification. Then we can step in and teach the skill and explain the unspoken rules.

I think it is also important to “hold your fire” with telling your kid more actively what to do until there is something bigger to address like a bad teacher, a teaching method that isn’t working, a skill gap that needs a tutor that your kid needs to be coaxed into doing, or a class that has to be repeated.

Thank you, I appreciate this. All great points and that's a more constructive way to think about when a parent should get involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

You’re confusing ADHD with autism.

Kids with ADHD absolutely have motivation but they’ll never access it if you never let them grow up and insist on seeing them as crippled. More likely people see normal variations of maturation as ADHD.

NP. You are incorrect. Many if not most ADHD kids struggle to find motivation for non-preferred tasks. They can hyperfocus on things they like, but they have difficulty motivating themselves to get started on non-preferred tasks and have difficulty sustaining the effort to complete those tasks even once started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We struggled with the exact same thing. When you say The Self Driven Child wasn’t helpful, is it because you backed off and your child went ahead and floundered and failed? That, essentially, is the price and the process. You keep offering support, EF coaches, and restrict distractions like screen time, but you don’t use your own motivation to replace theirs. That’s the idea, anyway.

We did essentially follow that guidance. Smart kid with dyslexia and ADHD who simply would not do all the things he’d have to do to get good grades. Refused to go to office hours, retake tests, organize his papers, or do the bare minimum to get grown ups off his back. He graduated with a 3.0, and off he went to college.

Where…he has done really well. He almost failed one class his first semester, which would have meant losing his spot on his sports team. So he asked for help, found out for the first time that “studying” means hours, not minutes, for each exam, and he pulled himself out of the ditch. He now has a better GPA than he did in high school and he is so much happier. He isn’t going to win any academic awards or go to medical school, probably, but I really do think he’s finally got (most) of his stuff together. He had to do it on his time, and give me heartache while he did.

I know other parents of similar kids who did much more scaffolding and forcing work (you can’t force motivation, only compliance). Their kids absolutely got better grades than mine did, without question. They also seem to have made it through their Freshman years intact. But I didn’t fight with my kid, or have power struggles, or have to figure out incentives and punishments. It was a relatively happy high school experience, and after a really rough middle school experience I am grateful for that.

Good luck. These kids are not easy to parent!

Thank you. This gets to the heart of what I'm trying to figure out. It's been a while since I read Self-Driven Child but I felt like aside from a chapter on neurodivergence, it seemed more relevant to neurotypical kids. Part of the challenge we're facing on the academic side is that there are no real consequences for my son. For example, the school allows him to retake most (but not all) exams. He does seem to care a little bit about his grades and he takes the initiative to ask for retakes. I had been hoping that he would see more direct consequences in middle school from poor/no study habits but that hasn't been the case yet. I also think the school's expectations for written work are painfully low. But that's a topic for another discussion.

I think your impulse/motivation/headspace is the right one, but the timeline is off. All of this is just going to come later. Maybe a lot later, and you have to find a way to be okay with that. It may not kick in in time to get him to the kind of college that you had envisioned for him when he was a smart and curious 7 year old. But those smarts and curiosity are still there, and they’ll get him to a college, or a job, and he’ll keep maturing while there. He’ll keep maturing through his 20’s!

It’s sloooooooooow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

You’re confusing ADHD with autism.

Kids with ADHD absolutely have motivation but they’ll never access it if you never let them grow up and insist on seeing them as crippled. More likely people see normal variations of maturation as ADHD.

NP. You are incorrect. Many if not most ADHD kids struggle to find motivation for non-preferred tasks. They can hyperfocus on things they like, but they have difficulty motivating themselves to get started on non-preferred tasks and have difficulty sustaining the effort to complete those tasks even once started.

Well OP’s kid gets As and Bs so the difficulty is likely not crippling. One key insight of the Self Driven Child is that you have to have some trust that your kid will rise to the occasion- and that the alternative (intensive parental support and direction) will not pay off in the long run because eventually the kid has to be on their own.

[Anonymous]

The self driven child is not suited toward kids with adhd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

You’re confusing ADHD with autism.

Kids with ADHD absolutely have motivation but they’ll never access it if you never let them grow up and insist on seeing them as crippled. More likely people see normal variations of maturation as ADHD.

NP. You are incorrect. Many if not most ADHD kids struggle to find motivation for non-preferred tasks. They can hyperfocus on things they like, but they have difficulty motivating themselves to get started on non-preferred tasks and have difficulty sustaining the effort to complete those tasks even once started.

Well OP’s kid gets As and Bs so the difficulty is likely not crippling. One key insight of the Self Driven Child is that you have to have some trust that your kid will rise to the occasion- and that the alternative (intensive parental support and direction) will not pay off in the long run because eventually the kid has to be on their own.

You're completely missing the point: ADHD is an executive functioning deficit disorder. Simply trusting that your kid will at some point "rise to the occasion" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what ADHD actually is and how to support it. Self-motivation requires the ability to see into the future and adapt your behavior now in order to achieve a goal down the road. It requires delayed gratification and the ability to tune out distractions and impulses that pull your attention away from the task at hand and the ultimate goal. This requires executive functioning skills. The average kid with ADHD has an executive functioning system that is 30% behind their same-age peers. It's not a matter of them being lazy. Their brains do not function in that way yet. That's why supports are needed. Ideally, the supports help the kids develop executive functioning skills so that they get to a place where they are not dependent on external supports/motivation. But sitting back and trusting the child to figure it out on their own is 100% the wrong way to approach it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The self driven child is not suited toward kids with adhd.

Read the whole thing. There are some chapters specifically on ADHD and autism, and a fair amount of nuance elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

You’re confusing ADHD with autism.

Kids with ADHD absolutely have motivation but they’ll never access it if you never let them grow up and insist on seeing them as crippled. More likely people see normal variations of maturation as ADHD.

NP. You are incorrect. Many if not most ADHD kids struggle to find motivation for non-preferred tasks. They can hyperfocus on things they like, but they have difficulty motivating themselves to get started on non-preferred tasks and have difficulty sustaining the effort to complete those tasks even once started.

Well OP’s kid gets As and Bs so the difficulty is likely not crippling. One key insight of the Self Driven Child is that you have to have some trust that your kid will rise to the occasion- and that the alternative (intensive parental support and direction) will not pay off in the long run because eventually the kid has to be on their own.

You're completely missing the point: ADHD is an executive functioning deficit disorder. Simply trusting that your kid will at some point "rise to the occasion" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what ADHD actually is and how to support it. Self-motivation requires the ability to see into the future and adapt your behavior now in order to achieve a goal down the road. It requires delayed gratification and the ability to tune out distractions and impulses that pull your attention away from the task at hand and the ultimate goal. This requires executive functioning skills. The average kid with ADHD has an executive functioning system that is 30% behind their same-age peers. It's not a matter of them being lazy. Their brains do not function in that way yet. That's why supports are needed. Ideally, the supports help the kids develop executive functioning skills so that they get to a place where they are not dependent on external supports/motivation. But sitting back and trusting the child to figure it out on their own is 100% the wrong way to approach it.

Kids with ADHD don’t have NO executive functioning - it is delayed or relatively lower than peers. To get those skills they do need to be self-motivated and self aware. While they may need more help in some areas you should always be slowing down your impulse to jump in. Also the vast majority of kids on DCUM who have “ADHD” have very mild cases and normal to high IQs. for them developing a sense of self and their own motivation is more important than straight As. Nobody says let your kid flounder and get Fs but in the long run letting your kid self manage a little and get Bs may be the better tactic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

You’re confusing ADHD with autism.

Kids with ADHD absolutely have motivation but they’ll never access it if you never let them grow up and insist on seeing them as crippled. More likely people see normal variations of maturation as ADHD.

NP. You are incorrect. Many if not most ADHD kids struggle to find motivation for non-preferred tasks. They can hyperfocus on things they like, but they have difficulty motivating themselves to get started on non-preferred tasks and have difficulty sustaining the effort to complete those tasks even once started.

Well OP’s kid gets As and Bs so the difficulty is likely not crippling. One key insight of the Self Driven Child is that you have to have some trust that your kid will rise to the occasion- and that the alternative (intensive parental support and direction) will not pay off in the long run because eventually the kid has to be on their own.

You're completely missing the point: ADHD is an executive functioning deficit disorder. Simply trusting that your kid will at some point "rise to the occasion" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what ADHD actually is and how to support it. Self-motivation requires the ability to see into the future and adapt your behavior now in order to achieve a goal down the road. It requires delayed gratification and the ability to tune out distractions and impulses that pull your attention away from the task at hand and the ultimate goal. This requires executive functioning skills. The average kid with ADHD has an executive functioning system that is 30% behind their same-age peers. It's not a matter of them being lazy. Their brains do not function in that way yet. That's why supports are needed. Ideally, the supports help the kids develop executive functioning skills so that they get to a place where they are not dependent on external supports/motivation. But sitting back and trusting the child to figure it out on their own is 100% the wrong way to approach it.

Kids with ADHD don’t have NO executive functioning - it is delayed or relatively lower than peers. To get those skills they do need to be self-motivated and self aware. While they may need more help in some areas you should always be slowing down your impulse to jump in. Also the vast majority of kids on DCUM who have “ADHD” have very mild cases and normal to high IQs. for them developing a sense of self and their own motivation is more important than straight As. Nobody says let your kid flounder and get Fs but in the long run letting your kid self manage a little and get Bs may be the better tactic.

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond since it's clear you don't know anything about ADHD. A 5-min google search would serve you well. But again, kids with ADHD are about 30% delayed in EF skills on average. That deficit is huge. That's a 10 year old having the EF of a 7 year old. Self-awareness and self-motivation ARE executive functioning skills. They aren't separate skills that help with EF. They are the very skills that kids with ADHD need to acquire, among others. So saying that kids with ADHD just need to be self-motivated and self-aware to develop EF makes no sense. One does not learn to become self-aware by...being self-aware. Your argument is circular and nonsensical.

I also find it telling that you seem to believe that the majority of kids with "ADHD" (and your use of quotes here is notable) is mild. It almost sounds like you don't believe ADHD is a real disorder that affects millions of children. That if these kids just tried harder, they would be fine. I suggest you educate yourself on what these kids and their families deal with on a daily basis and go touch grass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

You’re confusing ADHD with autism.

Kids with ADHD absolutely have motivation but they’ll never access it if you never let them grow up and insist on seeing them as crippled. More likely people see normal variations of maturation as ADHD.

NP. You are incorrect. Many if not most ADHD kids struggle to find motivation for non-preferred tasks. They can hyperfocus on things they like, but they have difficulty motivating themselves to get started on non-preferred tasks and have difficulty sustaining the effort to complete those tasks even once started.

Well OP’s kid gets As and Bs so the difficulty is likely not crippling. One key insight of the Self Driven Child is that you have to have some trust that your kid will rise to the occasion- and that the alternative (intensive parental support and direction) will not pay off in the long run because eventually the kid has to be on their own.

You're completely missing the point: ADHD is an executive functioning deficit disorder. Simply trusting that your kid will at some point "rise to the occasion" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what ADHD actually is and how to support it. Self-motivation requires the ability to see into the future and adapt your behavior now in order to achieve a goal down the road. It requires delayed gratification and the ability to tune out distractions and impulses that pull your attention away from the task at hand and the ultimate goal. This requires executive functioning skills. The average kid with ADHD has an executive functioning system that is 30% behind their same-age peers. It's not a matter of them being lazy. Their brains do not function in that way yet. That's why supports are needed. Ideally, the supports help the kids develop executive functioning skills so that they get to a place where they are not dependent on external supports/motivation. But sitting back and trusting the child to figure it out on their own is 100% the wrong way to approach it.

Kids with ADHD don’t have NO executive functioning - it is delayed or relatively lower than peers. To get those skills they do need to be self-motivated and self aware. While they may need more help in some areas you should always be slowing down your impulse to jump in. Also the vast majority of kids on DCUM who have “ADHD” have very mild cases and normal to high IQs. for them developing a sense of self and their own motivation is more important than straight As. Nobody says let your kid flounder and get Fs but in the long run letting your kid self manage a little and get Bs may be the better tactic.

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond since it's clear you don't know anything about ADHD. A 5-min google search would serve you well. But again, kids with ADHD are about 30% delayed in EF skills on average. That deficit is huge. That's a 10 year old having the EF of a 7 year old. Self-awareness and self-motivation ARE executive functioning skills. They aren't separate skills that help with EF. They are the very skills that kids with ADHD need to acquire, among others. So saying that kids with ADHD just need to be self-motivated and self-aware to develop EF makes no sense. One does not learn to become self-aware by...being self-aware. Your argument is circular and nonsensical.

I also find it telling that you seem to believe that the majority of kids with "ADHD" (and your use of quotes here is notable) is mild. It almost sounds like you don't believe ADHD is a real disorder that affects millions of children. That if these kids just tried harder, they would be fine. I suggest you educate yourself on what these kids and their families deal with on a daily basis and go touch grass.

30% is not actually “huge.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi, would you mind sharing the contact information of the EF coach you use? Would love to have a recommendation from someone who’s actually using them. Thanks!

Yes happy to share. Like others I’ve seen, I’m cautious about posting their contact information on here. If you want to shoot me an email (jjboon66@gmail) I can send the coaches contact info to you. Hope all goes well! It will. The coach is great! Good luck!