Williams Admitted Students day - recommendations needed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which other schools are still in the running along with Williams?

OP: just answered above as well. It's between Rice, CMU and Williams. Leaning Rice vs CMU (kid is an advanced student in pure math. either going to PhD or quant after undergrad).

We visited Rice Owl day over the weekend and I think DC loved it a lot - all the students there were great. Spoke to several math profs and math major students. I think the visit made the Rice vs CMU decision harder for DC!!!

Williams is still in the running for now, even though the lack of advanced/grad-level math classes is a major drawback. But I keep hearing the education is amazing at Williams so we have to go see it for ourselves, and give it a fair chance, at least!

Aren’t independent study classes offered at Williams?

[Anonymous]

Can't go wrong with any of the three, for different reasons. But for advanced math, it should be CMU vs. Rice yes. Rice for overall UG experience and excellent education, CMU for education with less great UG experience. I'd compare outcomes, but feel comfortable letting DC decide!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which other schools are still in the running along with Williams?

OP: just answered above as well. It's between Rice, CMU and Williams. Leaning Rice vs CMU (kid is an advanced student in pure math. either going to PhD or quant after undergrad).

We visited Rice Owl day over the weekend and I think DC loved it a lot - all the students there were great. Spoke to several math profs and math major students. I think the visit made the Rice vs CMU decision harder for DC!!!

Williams is still in the running for now, even though the lack of advanced/grad-level math classes is a major drawback. But I keep hearing the education is amazing at Williams so we have to go see it for ourselves, and give it a fair chance, at least!

^^ OP: want to add DC was shut out of all Ivys+MIT+Stanford+Caltech sadly. Decision week was really tough, and surprising since between (a substantial scholarship and financial aid) made Rice almost free, so we thought DC had a real chance with at least one Ivy. Nope. ZERO.

DC very disappointed - I think the big part that bothers us is that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

Do you mind sharing stats? Asking because your kid obviously has a competitive application to get into Williams, CMU and Rice RD. Wondering what kind of stats somehow get into these but not Ivies+MSC. It would help other families to know realistic chances. TIA but again congrats! He has amazing options!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which other schools are still in the running along with Williams?

OP: just answered above as well. It's between Rice, CMU and Williams. Leaning Rice vs CMU (kid is an advanced student in pure math. either going to PhD or quant after undergrad).

We visited Rice Owl day over the weekend and I think DC loved it a lot - all the students there were great. Spoke to several math profs and math major students. I think the visit made the Rice vs CMU decision harder for DC!!!

Williams is still in the running for now, even though the lack of advanced/grad-level math classes is a major drawback. But I keep hearing the education is amazing at Williams so we have to go see it for ourselves, and give it a fair chance, at least!

^^ OP: want to add DC was shut out of all Ivys+MIT+Stanford+Caltech sadly. Decision week was really tough, and surprising since between (a substantial scholarship and financial aid) made Rice almost free, so we thought DC had a real chance with at least one Ivy. Nope. ZERO.

DC very disappointed - I think the big part that bothers us is that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

Do you mind sharing stats? Asking because your kid obviously has a competitive application to get into Williams, CMU and Rice RD. Wondering what kind of stats somehow get into these but not Ivies+MSC. It would help other families to know realistic chances. TIA but again congrats! He has amazing options!

- Competitive feeder high school
- low income, URM
- Questbridge Finalist (but did not use the match), College Prep Scholar
- National Merit Finalist with scholarship money
- all As in STEM classes, Bs in English (this is probably what killed the Ivy dream)
- 1570 SAT (800M)
- math: linear alg, multivar calc
- competitive summer camp (two of: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMac/HCSSiM/Mathcamp/Garcia/Simons/SSP/YYGS/Clark, with an award from one of these camps)
- part of a math research summer program - not competitive/prestigious or anything, but usually only accepts college students (no publication)
- leadership position related to a math activity outside of school
- varsity athlete, captain of team
- volunteering (both in and out of school)

[Anonymous]

Not a single Ivy or Stanford is extremely surprising. Very few Questbridge students have those kind of stats- I’d guess maybe 20-30 a year among the finalists with the National Merit/1550+ SAT combo (the median SAT is around a 1350). In any case though, he still had great options in front of him! Please keep us posted about what he picks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a single Ivy or Stanford is extremely surprising. Very few Questbridge students have those kind of stats- I’d guess maybe 20-30 a year among the finalists with the National Merit/1550+ SAT combo (the median SAT is around a 1350). In any case though, he still had great options in front of him! Please keep us posted about what he picks!

DP I find it surprising as well. That profile is good enough for Yale or definitely Brown. Brown especially loves first-gen/low-income/URM. Plenty of kids with lower stats than that (under 1550) and with no other hooks in at Cornell and sometimes Penn because they can accept so many more kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which other schools are still in the running along with Williams?

OP: just answered above as well. It's between Rice, CMU and Williams. Leaning Rice vs CMU (kid is an advanced student in pure math. either going to PhD or quant after undergrad).

We visited Rice Owl day over the weekend and I think DC loved it a lot - all the students there were great. Spoke to several math profs and math major students. I think the visit made the Rice vs CMU decision harder for DC!!!

Williams is still in the running for now, even though the lack of advanced/grad-level math classes is a major drawback. But I keep hearing the education is amazing at Williams so we have to go see it for ourselves, and give it a fair chance, at least!

^^ OP: want to add DC was shut out of all Ivys+MIT+Stanford+Caltech sadly. Decision week was really tough, and surprising since between (a substantial scholarship and financial aid) made Rice almost free, so we thought DC had a real chance with at least one Ivy. Nope. ZERO.

DC very disappointed - I think the big part that bothers us is that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

Do you mind sharing stats? Asking because your kid obviously has a competitive application to get into Williams, CMU and Rice RD. Wondering what kind of stats somehow get into these but not Ivies+MSC. It would help other families to know realistic chances. TIA but again congrats! He has amazing options!

- Competitive feeder high school
- low income, URM
- Questbridge Finalist (but did not use the match), College Prep Scholar
- National Merit Finalist with scholarship money
- all As in STEM classes, Bs in English (this is probably what killed the Ivy dream)
- 1570 SAT (800M)
- math: linear alg, multivar calc
- competitive summer camp (two of: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMac/HCSSiM/Mathcamp/Garcia/Simons/SSP/YYGS/Clark, with an award from one of these camps)
- part of a math research summer program - not competitive/prestigious or anything, but usually only accepts college students (no publication)
- leadership position related to a math activity outside of school
- varsity athlete, captain of team
- volunteering (both in and out of school)

Why didn't he match?
Did the program specify being a college student as a requirement, and if so, why did he choose to apply?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a single Ivy or Stanford is extremely surprising. Very few Questbridge students have those kind of stats- I’d guess maybe 20-30 a year among the finalists with the National Merit/1550+ SAT combo (the median SAT is around a 1350). In any case though, he still had great options in front of him! Please keep us posted about what he picks!

Just because they value QB students with an amazing story who overcame extraordinary circumstances and world class math geniuses doesn't necessarily mean they value QB students who are very very good at math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a single Ivy or Stanford is extremely surprising. Very few Questbridge students have those kind of stats- I’d guess maybe 20-30 a year among the finalists with the National Merit/1550+ SAT combo (the median SAT is around a 1350). In any case though, he still had great options in front of him! Please keep us posted about what he picks!

DP I find it surprising as well. That profile is good enough for Yale or definitely Brown. Brown especially loves first-gen/low-income/URM. Plenty of kids with lower stats than that (under 1550) and with no other hooks in at Cornell and sometimes Penn because they can accept so many more kids.

Are you surprised that D3 level athletes with a 1450 (better sat score than many recruits and better athletics than non-recruits) get rejected?

See the above comment

[Anonymous]

The thing is that so many kids with “profiles good enough” don’t get in. 4% acceptance rate. That means lots of “good enough” kids don’t get in. It’s fine.

[Anonymous]

I'm all for diversity but I wish Questbridge and similar programs would go away.

For every kid who is "lifted up" by those programs, there are several who stand out like a sore thumb, stick together and don't engage with the other kids, and end up struggling because they aren't adequately prepared.

Those programs don't do a great job of finding academically and socially prepared kids. And there are plenty of them. And please don't discount the importance of being socially prepared - college isn't just about academics.

[Anonymous]

the rich kids also stand out like a sore thumb, stick together, dont engage with other kids, and end up struggling for a lot of reasons usually disinterest in attending classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for diversity but I wish Questbridge and similar programs would go away.

For every kid who is "lifted up" by those programs, there are several who stand out like a sore thumb, stick together and don't engage with the other kids, and end up struggling because they aren't adequately prepared.

Those programs don't do a great job of finding academically and socially prepared kids. And there are plenty of them. And please don't discount the importance of being socially prepared - college isn't just about academics.

Considering every single Ivy League and almost every top private university/LAC is a partner college, many for almost two decades, I’m guessing these schools know better than you do about who is qualified to attend. The six year graduation rate is also comparable to non-Questbridge grads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which other schools are still in the running along with Williams?

OP: just answered above as well. It's between Rice, CMU and Williams. Leaning Rice vs CMU (kid is an advanced student in pure math. either going to PhD or quant after undergrad).

We visited Rice Owl day over the weekend and I think DC loved it a lot - all the students there were great. Spoke to several math profs and math major students. I think the visit made the Rice vs CMU decision harder for DC!!!

Williams is still in the running for now, even though the lack of advanced/grad-level math classes is a major drawback. But I keep hearing the education is amazing at Williams so we have to go see it for ourselves, and give it a fair chance, at least!

^^ OP: want to add DC was shut out of all Ivys+MIT+Stanford+Caltech sadly. Decision week was really tough, and surprising since between (a substantial scholarship and financial aid) made Rice almost free, so we thought DC had a real chance with at least one Ivy. Nope. ZERO.

DC very disappointed - I think the big part that bothers us is that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

Do you mind sharing stats? Asking because your kid obviously has a competitive application to get into Williams, CMU and Rice RD. Wondering what kind of stats somehow get into these but not Ivies+MSC. It would help other families to know realistic chances. TIA but again congrats! He has amazing options!

- Competitive feeder high school
- low income, URM
- Questbridge Finalist (but did not use the match), College Prep Scholar
- National Merit Finalist with scholarship money
- all As in STEM classes, Bs in English (this is probably what killed the Ivy dream)
- 1570 SAT (800M)
- math: linear alg, multivar calc
- competitive summer camp (two of: ROSS/PROMYS/SuMac/HCSSiM/Mathcamp/Garcia/Simons/SSP/YYGS/Clark, with an award from one of these camps)
- part of a math research summer program - not competitive/prestigious or anything, but usually only accepts college students (no publication)
- leadership position related to a math activity outside of school
- varsity athlete, captain of team
- volunteering (both in and out of school)

Why didn't he match?
Did the program specify being a college student as a requirement, and if so, why did he choose to apply?

OP: We feel the common app give DC a much better chance to showcase his "achievements" - DC has more than enough ECs and awards to fill out those sections on Common App (where QB app restricts EC=4 only, similarly with awards). DC did apply to Princeton and MIT with QB app (as is required starting this year), and was rejected from both.

So you ladies don't think the low English grades were the problem? At least "enough" of a problem for straight rejections?

Personally, I feel something is off - a straight shut out from the Ivys were very surprising for me personally (I expected at least some waitlists somewhere, rather than straight rejection, even with no acceptances). I thought maybe some thing was wrong with his app, but the fact that he almost got a full ride from Rice tells me the app itself is good and clean (eg the school didn't screw up sending his transcripts or whatnot).

I just don't understand why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a single Ivy or Stanford is extremely surprising. Very few Questbridge students have those kind of stats- I’d guess maybe 20-30 a year among the finalists with the National Merit/1550+ SAT combo (the median SAT is around a 1350). In any case though, he still had great options in front of him! Please keep us posted about what he picks!

DP I find it surprising as well. That profile is good enough for Yale or definitely Brown. Brown especially loves first-gen/low-income/URM. Plenty of kids with lower stats than that (under 1550) and with no other hooks in at Cornell and sometimes Penn because they can accept so many more kids.

OP: Rejected at Brown (surprised too). Didn't apply to Cornell, Upenn, or Dartmouth.