Universities Really Are Messed Up (says Yale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless Yale plans to dramatically increase in size, the only way to end the “murky admissions practices” is to be open about conducting a lottery for everyone over a certain benchmark. There is no fair way to pick a mere 2% from a pool of highly-qualified 17 year olds.

I think one of the suggestions in the report would be a small, meaningful improvement: put in testing minimums. Would reduce apps and thus increase admissions rate, but would go a long way to getting rid of the lowest performing, "murky" admits from the Legacy, Athlete, Donor, FGLI buckets

[Anonymous]

Fun when the elites come to the same groundbreaking conclusions everyone else has known for decades.

[Anonymous]

From a university that is one of the biggest offenders. lol their admissions process? Come on. Not exactly merit-based.

[Anonymous]

The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless Yale plans to dramatically increase in size, the only way to end the “murky admissions practices” is to be open about conducting a lottery for everyone over a certain benchmark. There is no fair way to pick a mere 2% from a pool of highly-qualified 17 year olds.

I think one of the suggestions in the report would be a small, meaningful improvement: put in testing minimums. Would reduce apps and thus increase admissions rate, but would go a long way to getting rid of the lowest performing, "murky" admits from the Legacy, Athlete, Donor, FGLI buckets

But do they actually want to get rid of the lowest-performing scions of mega-donors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless Yale plans to dramatically increase in size, the only way to end the “murky admissions practices” is to be open about conducting a lottery for everyone over a certain benchmark. There is no fair way to pick a mere 2% from a pool of highly-qualified 17 year olds.

I think one of the suggestions in the report would be a small, meaningful improvement: put in testing minimums. Would reduce apps and thus increase admissions rate, but would go a long way to getting rid of the lowest performing, "murky" admits from the Legacy, Athlete, Donor, FGLI buckets

But do they actually want to get rid of the lowest-performing scions of mega-donors?

I think they do. These tiptop schools have more money than they can spend now. Maybe 15 years ago it was different, but these endowments have exploded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless Yale plans to dramatically increase in size, the only way to end the “murky admissions practices” is to be open about conducting a lottery for everyone over a certain benchmark. There is no fair way to pick a mere 2% from a pool of highly-qualified 17 year olds.

I think one of the suggestions in the report would be a small, meaningful improvement: put in testing minimums. Would reduce apps and thus increase admissions rate, but would go a long way to getting rid of the lowest performing, "murky" admits from the Legacy, Athlete, Donor, FGLI buckets

But do they actually want to get rid of the lowest-performing scions of mega-donors?

Maybe. They certainly are acknowledging that type of admission is a problem.

“When selective admissions seem so inexplicable — or, worse, tilted in ways that benefit the already advantaged — it should come as no surprise that many Americans do not trust the process,” the committee wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

I would not be so sure.

“When selective admissions seem so inexplicable — or, worse, tilted in ways that benefit the already advantaged — it should come as no surprise that many Americans do not trust the process,” the committee wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

64% of matriculants came from public high schools.
36% of matriculants came from independent day, boarding, and religious schools.

when you say "by far" what does that mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

64% of matriculants came from public high schools.
36% of matriculants came from independent day, boarding, and religious schools.

when you say "by far" what does that mean?

Only 10% of American kids go to private high schools. Filling over a third of your incoming class with them is very disproportionate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

64% of matriculants came from public high schools.
36% of matriculants came from independent day, boarding, and religious schools.

when you say "by far" what does that mean?

Only 10% of American kids go to private high schools. Filling over a third of your incoming class with them is very disproportionate.

I thought you'd say that, but I think you have to consider college-bound kids. Only about 60% of high schoolers move onto college. And the vast majority go to community or public school. So I'm not sure we can knock Yale for national trends.

Or you can think about class and race. For example, for the last 10 years now, more than half of all white kids in NYC do not use the public school system. and those that do are clustered in a small sample of schools. I dont think you can blame Yale for the situation the largest public school system in America.

Are you saying Yale is a lot worse than the other top 20 private schools? I think it's pretty much in line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

64% of matriculants came from public high schools.
36% of matriculants came from independent day, boarding, and religious schools.

when you say "by far" what does that mean?

I just looked up Swarthmore they have almost exactly the same breakdown 36 percent independent/religious…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

64% of matriculants came from public high schools.
36% of matriculants came from independent day, boarding, and religious schools.

when you say "by far" what does that mean?

Only 10% of American kids go to private high schools. Filling over a third of your incoming class with them is very disproportionate.

I thought you'd say that, but I think you have to consider college-bound kids. Only about 60% of high schoolers move onto college. And the vast majority go to community or public school. So I'm not sure we can knock Yale for national trends.

Or you can think about class and race. For example, for the last 10 years now, more than half of all white kids in NYC do not use the public school system. and those that do are clustered in a small sample of schools. I dont think you can blame Yale for the situation the largest public school system in America.

Are you saying Yale is a lot worse than the other top 20 private schools? I think it's pretty much in line.

I'm not saying that. I think this report was done at Yale but I think it reflects perceptions in this country of all the elite levels private universities. They are by the advantaged for the advantaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich coming from Yale, who only accepts legacy donors from our top private.

I applaud the new Yale President for commissioning the report and for releasing the results publicly. Wound you rather Yale had just buried its head in the sand - like so many other elite institutions?

I do t know what happens next but first step is acknowledging the issue.

+1

I want to give a shout out to Dr. Maurie McInnis, who assumed her position at Yale after serving a president at my alma mater, Stony Brook University.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most overrepresented student at Yale is the private school graduate. By far. That will NEVER change.

64% of matriculants came from public high schools.
36% of matriculants came from independent day, boarding, and religious schools.

when you say "by far" what does that mean?

Only 10% of American kids go to private high schools. Filling over a third of your incoming class with them is very disproportionate.

I thought you'd say that, but I think you have to consider college-bound kids. Only about 60% of high schoolers move onto college. And the vast majority go to community or public school. So I'm not sure we can knock Yale for national trends.

Or you can think about class and race. For example, for the last 10 years now, more than half of all white kids in NYC do not use the public school system. and those that do are clustered in a small sample of schools. I dont think you can blame Yale for the situation the largest public school system in America.

Are you saying Yale is a lot worse than the other top 20 private schools? I think it's pretty much in line.

I'm not saying that. I think this report was done at Yale but I think it reflects perceptions in this country of all the elite levels private universities. They are by the advantaged for the advantaged.

I think that's true for every top 100 college. For some kids it's about tutoring to bring the 1350 SAT to a 1450 and get into SMU. For some it's about getting the 1550 to 1580. Plus application coaches etc, which is certainly not limited to the most elite. My kids are in a strong public here and plenty have them. It's a money thing. Plus just having the social capital to lock in early about all matters - which you can't do if your family has more pressing day to day concerns of getting dinner on the table.

You could do a chart about kids who see a dentist twice a year and kids who get into a top 100 school and it would be a straight line. Or families who use laundromats and have kids who get into a top 100 school and it would be a different straight line. It's about families having time and access and money to even think about this.

But most kids who are in the top .5% are getting into HYP. All the coaching and tutoring in the world can't do that. Which is why about 40% are from private and not 70%. Not that it matters - these kids dont even need these schools. They can go to NYU and be just fine. (which is why I never understood varsity blues parents .. you dont need this!)