Is pre-med at UChicago a bad idea?

[Anonymous]

She is going to change her mind about being pre-med her first year anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD sounds similar to yours and is now a junior majoring in a STEM field at UChi. She's completed (as part of the sequence of classes needed for her major) all of the pre-med classes. The grade deflation situation and rigor is real although it is not, as you said, "busy work. Med schools/internship opportunities are aware of the situation at Chicago and take that into account. Kids are nose down a lot of the time as lectures + labs + discussion groups take a lot of time and the problem sets are no joke. She does finds time to work out and "goes out" maybe once a week. She was dead set on UChi, but had she had a slightly less strenuous option she was considering we might have pushed her in that direction knowing what we know now. But then again, she's happy and has found her people and she's definitely being challenged!

I'm curious which school you considered to be "slightly less strenuous" than UChicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Premed is a grind anywhere. Emory, WashU, JHU, Penn, Case Western, Vandy, all grinds for premed.

Chicago has grade inflation now. It's not what it used to be.

Chicago definitely does not have grade inflation. Agree that pre-med is a grind at top schools, but I think the quarter system makes it even more challenging.

There have been multiple posts On UChicago and "grade deflation" lately what is going on? While the quarter system does make the pace harder, the grades at UChicago are most certainly NOT DEFLATED compared to peer schools. Are they "inflated"? Not to the extent of Harvard/Brown which have medians around 3.9 nor Duke and Dartmouth where 3.9 is around top third, 3.80-3.84 around average. But Chicago is indeed inflated compared to 30 years ago. All schools are. Every single one. In fact some of the classic toxic schools (JHU, CMU), have shifted medians to the right more than peers to try and overcome some of the reputation.

Uchicago has median graduating gpa around 3.7, roughly the same as UVA and the three "deflated" ivies Princeton Penn and Cornell. UChcago curves the typical freshman premed courses to a B/B+ with Cs being rare. Upper-level stem courses have B+/A- medians.

Med school AOs know the differences in grading. They get data from the undergrad schools and they track applicant data themselves. Also, they're quite aware of the differences in peer group: a median GPA from UChicago, whatever it is, is far more impressive than a top-quarter GPA from a T50. And, a 3.7 from Chicago is indeed more impressive than a 3.7 from UVA, two schools with similar medians yet different student intellectual ability averages.

Med schools also use the MCAT and have access to MCAT tier data from different undergrads. UChicago and other ivy+ typically have average -GPA students earning an mcat of 515-517 while UVA is roughly 505 for the average-GPA undergrad.

PRESUMABLY the same student would get about 3.8 at UVA and 3.7 at Chicago. The concern is that it may not work out that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Premed is a grind anywhere. Emory, WashU, JHU, Penn, Case Western, Vandy, all grinds for premed.

Chicago has grade inflation now. It's not what it used to be.

Chicago definitely does not have grade inflation. Agree that pre-med is a grind at top schools, but I think the quarter system makes it even more challenging.

There have been multiple posts On UChicago and "grade deflation" lately what is going on? While the quarter system does make the pace harder, the grades at UChicago are most certainly NOT DEFLATED compared to peer schools. Are they "inflated"? Not to the extent of Harvard/Brown which have medians around 3.9 nor Duke and Dartmouth where 3.9 is around top third, 3.80-3.84 around average. But Chicago is indeed inflated compared to 30 years ago. All schools are. Every single one. In fact some of the classic toxic schools (JHU, CMU), have shifted medians to the right more than peers to try and overcome some of the reputation.

Uchicago has median graduating gpa around 3.7, roughly the same as UVA and the three "deflated" ivies Princeton Penn and Cornell. UChcago curves the typical freshman premed courses to a B/B+ with Cs being rare. Upper-level stem courses have B+/A- medians.

Med school AOs know the differences in grading. They get data from the undergrad schools and they track applicant data themselves. Also, they're quite aware of the differences in peer group: a median GPA from UChicago, whatever it is, is far more impressive than a top-quarter GPA from a T50. And, a 3.7 from Chicago is indeed more impressive than a 3.7 from UVA, two schools with similar medians yet different student intellectual ability averages.

Med schools also use the MCAT and have access to MCAT tier data from different undergrads. UChicago and other ivy+ typically have average -GPA students earning an mcat of 515-517 while UVA is roughly 505 for the average-GPA undergrad.

I don't know about Duke but Dartmouth doesn't have inflation to the extent you describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want the best combination of education, experience, and med school success attend a top SLAC.

Which LACS would be best for pre-med, science major, opportunities to learn closely with professors, and access to opportunities for medicine field-related internships?

I'd have her look at Carleton.

[Anonymous]

U Chicago rejects a lot of top students, no way of knowing she would even get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Premed is a grind anywhere. Emory, WashU, JHU, Penn, Case Western, Vandy, all grinds for premed.

Chicago has grade inflation now. It's not what it used to be.

Chicago definitely does not have grade inflation. Agree that pre-med is a grind at top schools, but I think the quarter system makes it even more challenging.

There have been multiple posts On UChicago and "grade deflation" lately what is going on? While the quarter system does make the pace harder, the grades at UChicago are most certainly NOT DEFLATED compared to peer schools. Are they "inflated"? Not to the extent of Harvard/Brown which have medians around 3.9 nor Duke and Dartmouth where 3.9 is around top third, 3.80-3.84 around average. But Chicago is indeed inflated compared to 30 years ago. All schools are. Every single one. In fact some of the classic toxic schools (JHU, CMU), have shifted medians to the right more than peers to try and overcome some of the reputation.

Uchicago has median graduating gpa around 3.7, roughly the same as UVA and the three "deflated" ivies Princeton Penn and Cornell. UChcago curves the typical freshman premed courses to a B/B+ with Cs being rare. Upper-level stem courses have B+/A- medians.

Med school AOs know the differences in grading. They get data from the undergrad schools and they track applicant data themselves. Also, they're quite aware of the differences in peer group: a median GPA from UChicago, whatever it is, is far more impressive than a top-quarter GPA from a T50. And, a 3.7 from Chicago is indeed more impressive than a 3.7 from UVA, two schools with similar medians yet different student intellectual ability averages.

Med schools also use the MCAT and have access to MCAT tier data from different undergrads. UChicago and other ivy+ typically have average -GPA students earning an mcat of 515-517 while UVA is roughly 505 for the average-GPA undergrad.

This info is 100% wrong. Any credible source on med school admissions will tell you how wrong this is. NO the med school admissions committees don’t give leeway to kids who attend rumored grade deflation colleges.

A higher gpa from any college is better than a lower gpa from any college.

The only difference in evaluating gpas is if you have two nearly identical applicants in grades, activities (clinical, volunteering, shadowing, research, etc.) and one went to a highly ranked school, they will often go w/that one.

Otherwise, gpa is king.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:U Chicago rejects a lot of top students, no way of knowing she would even get in.

Students with low gpas and test score should apply at ED to get in. Otherwise, they game the system by yield protecting and rejecting at RD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U Chicago rejects a lot of top students, no way of knowing she would even get in.

Students with low gpas and test score should apply at ED to get in. Otherwise, they game the system by yield protecting and rejecting at RD.

God, I hate when you people start with these overgeneralizations.

By "low GPA," you mean 3.6+ at one of the top private schools in the USA, which are known for grade deflation. Anything below 3.85 typically doesn't make the cut at UChicago from these non-elite private schools. Nothing wrong with public schools or respected privates, they just don't have the same admissions benefits. The point is, the "low GPAs" aren't actually low in context, and you're making people believe that a low GPA from any random high school is within range.


"Low test scores" is also false. UChicago loves a high test score. 1500+ or 34+ is necessary. I've seen the data from the many "top" private schools my friends' kids attend.

UChicago does not yield protect in RD. They simply have very very few spots left after the early rounds and have to be very selective. Most UChicago RD admits are the tippy top students; the 50%-40% who do not yield will choose HYPSM, another T10, or whoever gives the most money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U Chicago rejects a lot of top students, no way of knowing she would even get in.

Students with low gpas and test score should apply at ED to get in. Otherwise, they game the system by yield protecting and rejecting at RD.

God, I hate when you people start with these overgeneralizations.

By "low GPA," you mean 3.6+ at one of the top private schools in the USA, which are known for grade deflation. Anything below 3.85 typically doesn't make the cut at UChicago from these non-elite private schools. Nothing wrong with public schools or respected privates, they just don't have the same admissions benefits. The point is, the "low GPAs" aren't actually low in context, and you're making people believe that a low GPA from any random high school is within range.


"Low test scores" is also false. UChicago loves a high test score. 1500+ or 34+ is necessary. I've seen the data from the many "top" private schools my friends' kids attend.

UChicago does not yield protect in RD. They simply have very very few spots left after the early rounds and have to be very selective. Most UChicago RD admits are the tippy top students; the 50%-40% who do not yield will choose HYPSM, another T10, or whoever gives the most money.

3.2 as seen at Harvard Westlake

[Anonymous]

My daughter recently graduated with a biomolecular engineering degree. She took many of the same required courses that her pre-med friends took. The courses are challenging, but she was still able to graduate with a 3.75 while also being a student athlete and still having time for research and fun with friends. One of her roommates was pre-med and finished with a 3.9+ and received a very high MCAT score (her workload was less than my daughters)

I disagree with the idea that students are studying seven hours a day. Maybe during finals. As for environment and traditions, there are always lots of things to do and the house system is unique. My daughter misses her time there and would love to be back. The academics were challenging, but she was surrounded by incredibly curious people who pushed each other to think more deeply and were also very collaborative. It is a special place. If your daughter is strong academically and organized, she will most likely love her time at UChicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter recently graduated with a biomolecular engineering degree. She took many of the same required courses that her pre-med friends took. The courses are challenging, but she was still able to graduate with a 3.75 while also being a student athlete and still having time for research and fun with friends. One of her roommates was pre-med and finished with a 3.9+ and received a very high MCAT score (her workload was less than my daughters)

I disagree with the idea that students are studying seven hours a day. Maybe during finals. As for environment and traditions, there are always lots of things to do and the house system is unique. My daughter misses her time there and would love to be back. The academics were challenging, but she was surrounded by incredibly curious people who pushed each other to think more deeply and were also very collaborative. It is a special place. If your daughter is strong academically and organized, she will most likely love her time at UChicago.

Consistent with what I know about Chicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Primary concerns are 1) grade deflation = lower GPA for med school apps and 2) grind culture and so much busy work = no time left for meaningful pre-med internships. We watched a "Day in the life of a UChicago student" video on Youtube. The girl who made it described her workload in details and said she has 7 hours of homework a day on average in additional to going to classes, office hours, clubs and ECs on campus. She's not evening STEM/Engineering or Comp Sci!. How is that sustainable?

DD (junior) is curious about UChicago because she likes their essay prompt Qs which makes her think it's a campus full of "her kind of people". She's not deterred by the reputation of challenging academics (she has a history of excelling when things get more challenging). However, she is not what you would call a recluse nerd, she has lots of friends, is very social and active now in high school and manages to work year-round at a part-time job with coworkers she is friendly with. She says her ideal college will have top teaching, challenging academics, good for pre-med but also has lots of campus traditions, events and activities (non-Greek, Harry Potter Quidditch type). The latter part doesn't sound like UChicago to me, am I right?

UChicago has a ton of traditions.

https://nebula.tv/scav

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't worry about grade inflation/deflation for med school applications. I talked to someone that used to be on admissions committee for a top med school and he said they are how the various schools grade, and they take that into consideration.

The trimester system for premed is really challenging, I will say that.

Do the premeds have more fun at Brown? Or UMd? Or ASU? I don't know.

I spoke with someone at a top med school admissions committee and I asked if RPI (infamous for extreme grade deflation) got a boost and if Brown got a boost. They said Brown gets a boost in their system while RPI does not. So to me it seems to be more about the prestige in the eyes of the admissions committee than the grading practices.

[Anonymous]

OP, Rice sounds like it might be your Dad's dream school - strong academics, tight-knit social environment with a lot of traditions, etc.

And taking a gap year to do research etc (very common) in Texas allows you do declare Texas residency for TMDSAS which is basically an admissions cheat code considering how many public med schools are in Texas.