Sophomore bent on service academy won't pass PFT - college alternatives?

[Anonymous]

The Citadel is extremely niche. And probably not the best place for those that have mechanical engineering on their mind.

Is their a particular reason why she can't pass the physical readiness test? Because those same requirements will be needed for a 3 or 4 year ROTC scholarship.

Texas A&M and Virginia Tech are two good engineering schools that have very big ROTC programs. Among the "elite" schools, Duke, Princeton, Vanderbilt, MIT, Notre Dame and Berkeley all have significant on campus programs. All are solid in engineering of course. And getting a ROTC scholarship is definitely a great hook for these schools.

But all the fitness requirements still apply. Unless there is some underlying condition, I would think most healthy teenagers could train up to meeting those requirements if they have the discipline and commitment.

[Anonymous]

Norwich?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she interested in military-adjacent schools like the Citadel? Or ROTC?

To put it bluntly, she's a terrible runner. So, no.

That might not be a deal breaker for Air Force or Space Force.

Wow, hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Can I ask what attracted her to a service academy? Legacy (are you a service academy grad)? Culture? Desire to serve in the military post college? Desire for a military-related engineering job (ie naval engineering, shipbuilding, etc)? Four-year residential? A certain extracurricular?

I think identifying what was attractive will help.

FWIW, we are in a similar boat: kid wanted Annapolis (legacy) but had an injury that took him out of the running, so now we are scrambling for what’s next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Citadel is extremely niche. And probably not the best place for those that have mechanical engineering on their mind.

Is their a particular reason why she can't pass the physical readiness test? Because those same requirements will be needed for a 3 or 4 year ROTC scholarship.

Texas A&M and Virginia Tech are two good engineering schools that have very big ROTC programs. Among the "elite" schools, Duke, Princeton, Vanderbilt, MIT, Notre Dame and Berkeley all have significant on campus programs. All are solid in engineering of course. And getting a ROTC scholarship is definitely a great hook for these schools.

But all the fitness requirements still apply. Unless there is some underlying condition, I would think most healthy teenagers could train up to meeting those requirements if they have the discipline and commitment.

Guys. I think military service is off the table. The conversation isn’t about alternative pathways to military service. It’s about alternative careers and the pathways to those.

[Anonymous]

We bought a treadmill. Our kid didn’t have time to run during the day and we were leery of running in the dark.

On a treadmill it is easy to set the pace. So 7:30 is average time for female one mile run. So set the treadmill pace to :56 for a 200. My kid would run that pace for one minute but not be able to continue it. So would run hard for one minute then walk to rest for two minutes then run hard for another minute and did this ten times.

The next day they shortened the rest period and every couple days kept shortening the rest period.

Then they started in alternate days see if you can keep up the pace for 2 minutes. Then rest by walking then do that 5 times (knowing that they really only have to do it 4 times).

My kid hated long runs outside (but loves long hikes). So the suggestion to do ling runs some days never worked. This was the most efficient way

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she interested in military-adjacent schools like the Citadel? Or ROTC?

To put it bluntly, she's a terrible runner. So, no.

That might not be a deal breaker for Air Force or Space Force.

Wow, hilarious.

We in the real branches don't call them the "Chair Force" for nothing.

[Anonymous]

Have her go to college and then go in as officer.

[Anonymous]

^ forgot to add a treadmill is cheap compared to all the tuition will save

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have her go to college and then go in as officer.

Can people not read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she interested in military-adjacent schools like the Citadel? Or ROTC?

To put it bluntly, she's a terrible runner. So, no.

That might not be a deal breaker for Air Force or Space Force.

Wow, hilarious.

We in the real branches don't call them the "Chair Force" for nothing.

That nothing being your own ignorance, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she interested in military-adjacent schools like the Citadel? Or ROTC?

To put it bluntly, she's a terrible runner. So, no.

Then she needs to learn and work on it. There is no such thing as a terrible runner, just someone who is out of shape and has never been shown how and trained.

She is not out of shape. She's a good athlete with multiple state appearances in another sport, but even after private lessons and coaching, her running is just not good. We've worked on this for years thinking we had time, but she's decided it's not something she wants to pursue any longer. We're just trying to settle the college issue now.

I know you say she just can't run and people here seem to be having trouble digesting the fact that she is a good athlete but cannot meet the relatively low 1 mile run time requirement of 10 minutes., even with decent training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she interested in military-adjacent schools like the Citadel? Or ROTC?

To put it bluntly, she's a terrible runner. So, no.

Then she needs to learn and work on it. There is no such thing as a terrible runner, just someone who is out of shape and has never been shown how and trained.

She is not out of shape. She's a good athlete with multiple state appearances in another sport, but even after private lessons and coaching, her running is just not good. We've worked on this for years thinking we had time, but she's decided it's not something she wants to pursue any longer. We're just trying to settle the college issue now.

In reality, a lack of cardiovascular fitness makes ROTC impossible, even for Air Force. As a parent, I'd get some medical tests done. If a 15 year old is training and not getting anywhere - when it's typically super easy to gain improvement - I'd be concerned there's something going on.

The academies and ROTC programs aren't like a club sport activity. It's an enormous commitment on so many levels - and fitness is a big part of it.

So the better question is where does a student with this GPA and this PSAT who's interested in mechanical engineering look? Wants a tight-knit environment and a sense of community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she interested in military-adjacent schools like the Citadel? Or ROTC?

To put it bluntly, she's a terrible runner. So, no.

Then she needs to learn and work on it. There is no such thing as a terrible runner, just someone who is out of shape and has never been shown how and trained.

She is not out of shape. She's a good athlete with multiple state appearances in another sport, but even after private lessons and coaching, her running is just not good. We've worked on this for years thinking we had time, but she's decided it's not something she wants to pursue any longer. We're just trying to settle the college issue now.

In reality, a lack of cardiovascular fitness makes ROTC impossible, even for Air Force. As a parent, I'd get some medical tests done. If a 15 year old is training and not getting anywhere - when it's typically super easy to gain improvement - I'd be concerned there's something going on.

The academies and ROTC programs aren't like a club sport activity. It's an enormous commitment on so many levels - and fitness is a big part of it.

So the better question is where does a student with this GPA and this PSAT who's interested in mechanical engineering look? Wants a tight-knit environment and a sense of community.

Which was the original question.

[Anonymous]

I hear you, OP, that the 'military' is out.

I normally wouldn't share so many details stringed together but hope to lay the groundwork for some questions. Our DD was likewise interested in West Point, even won the local WP Society award but ultimately decided to forego it for multiple reasons: a food allergy (that still existed well into HS), a eye-sight issue (yet still holds the second best marksmanship comp score ever at her HS), lack of 'team' sports participation (she did Band instead), and only middling PFT scores. She did do, and very much excelled in, JROTC and everyone thought she'd be a good (but not necessarily shoo-in) candidate for WP. Her real problem: she wanted Marine Corps and that meant Annapolis rather than WP....and it just didn't appeal to her in anyway. She tried AFROTC in college and that was an abject failure. It was waaaay too laid back and horribly male-ego-dominated (where, ironically, the MC was not).

So can you tell us a bit more about what appealed to her with/for the Service Academies? Was/is it the intense structure (of both command and logistics)? Camaraderie? Sense of service to Country? Even something as mundane as 'the uniform'?

Academically speaking, the academies select excellent (but not necessarily Top) students and so if she'd meet those criteria (and the scores you reported for her I think do so)....she will have lots of options elsewhere.

A prior poster said "[g]ive us more about what she's looking for. School size? Area of the country? What is she looking for in a school?" Do that, and perhaps we can provide some more realistic suggestions.

My heart goes out to her and you. As a third generation Army family, we would've loved for our DD to be at WP and there were enough contacts in multiple branches to overcome even some of the medical issues (there, apparently, are a lot of waivers...just not for ADHD meds!...which wasn't an issue here). You have to really want an Academy. DD's JROTC Platoon commander turned down a full ROTC scholarship for NAPS and is now still two years away from graduating at Annapolis but I've no doubt, none, that he will be an outstanding Marine.

Our DD has found a different path (BSN>NP) and yours can too.