A depressing realization about American work culture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Denmark can afford such life style bc they have rich natural resources. France can afford bc they siphon resources from Africa. Americans are too proud so we will have to work hard for our life style.

America isn’t rich in natural resources? What a bizarre argument.

You own oil rigs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

It is getting very hard to “opt out” of hustle culture, even if you are willing to accept living smaller. Even basic housing and healthcare are out of reach.

We have a labor supply issue. Now that we turned our friends back home to the south even less workers are building houses. Until the day both dems and magas start working in construction nothing will help this situation.

Culture needs to shift to stop building complete trash homes too.

True, I can appreciate Denmark’s steel enforced housing frames, aside from being worried about being electrocuted during thunderstorms, that thing can last 400 years.

[Anonymous]

Do any of you watch Denmark movies or TV shows? They are openly racist, consistently. They don’t think of it as a problem either.

[Anonymous]

I thought about this this morning when I saw the story in WaPo about how AI startups expect a 996 schedule (9am-9pm, 6 days a week). This is not at all shocking for a tech startup and I could even see a time in my life where I might have been willing to do that for a company and project I was excited by. But after about 30, I would never have been willing to sacrifice quite that much of my life to any job. It's not even just about kids (though its a lot about kids), it's also about getting older and realizing that very long work hours and spending so much of my time among work colleagues and no one else is not good for my mental health or just having a sense of reality and a place in society. I now look at how I worked in my 20s, as a very ambitious high achiever, and I think it was youthful stupidity. I now very much believe in working smarter, not harder, and see how leisure time and quality time with loved ones actually makes me better at my job by giving me needed perspective and a broader understanding of the world.

An obsession with work has long been part of America's DNA, and I don't think we'll ever achieve the kind of Scandinavian work-life balance you see in Denmark (I'm also unsure that Denmark or other European nations will be able to sustain what they have, based on my recent work and conversations with people in those countries, which are slowly pushing towards more American-style work attitudes.

But I do think it would be worth talking more about what we lose with the super long hours and the expectation of constant connection and availability. Not just what individuals lose as people (though yes, that) but also what workplaces lose, what industries lose, what societies lose.

I don't actually think industries run entirely by myopic 20-something and older people who don't care about their families or anything outside work is going to create the best outcomes. Some people like that? Sure, and I hope they are well rewarded for their dedication. But the expectation that everyone work that way has some very high costs across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

It is getting very hard to “opt out” of hustle culture, even if you are willing to accept living smaller. Even basic housing and healthcare are out of reach.

We have a labor supply issue. Now that we turned our friends back home to the south even less workers are building houses. Until the day both dems and magas start working in construction nothing will help this situation.

Labor costs are only a very small part of the cause of housing becoming unaffordable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Denmark can afford such life style bc they have rich natural resources. France can afford bc they siphon resources from Africa. Americans are too proud so we will have to work hard for our life style.

America isn’t rich in natural resources? What a bizarre argument.

You own oil rigs?

The US does produce oil! But the profits don't go back to the people the way they do in Scandinavian countries or Alaska Native corporations. "We" don't own oil, only our richest do.

[Anonymous]

You aren't describing a middle class lifestyle. You are describing a upper middle or upper class lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Your rant is strange and you’re clueless. People in Scandinavian countries are all stressed. Do some research about housing prices and mortgage debt. They are levered up. Also their jobs require fewer hours but are often strangely less flexible.

I’d argue that office jobs in the US are more flexible than in decades past.

You need to work for yourself or do something that’s not an 8-6 office job.

[Anonymous]

Fun fact - in Norway the government slows down the internet on Sunday to encourage family time. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to government intervention to ensure work:life balance. Stores and shops are also closed on sunday.

I’d prefer to have the option to choose my lifestyle and if I don’t want what you describe, I don’t live that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

Mmmmmk when was the last time Denmark invented something remarkable/changed life/society/the way we think about health/convenience/technology? Annnnnnnd now you know why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

Mmmmmk when was the last time Denmark invented something remarkable/changed life/society/the way we think about health/convenience/technology? Annnnnnnd now you know why.

DP but all of that is hype and overrated.
How many of the last 10-20 years worth of advances really helped the common man?
A lot more have harmed than helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact - in Norway the government slows down the internet on Sunday to encourage family time. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to government intervention to ensure work:life balance. Stores and shops are also closed on sunday.

I’d prefer to have the option to choose my lifestyle and if I don’t want what you describe, I don’t live that way.

Our stores and shops used to be closed on Sunday too. It was nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

Mmmmmk when was the last time Denmark invented something remarkable/changed life/society/the way we think about health/convenience/technology? Annnnnnnd now you know why.

DP but all of that is hype and overrated.
How many of the last 10-20 years worth of advances really helped the common man?
A lot more have harmed than helped.

+1 and who thinks AI is really necessary? For what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

Mmmmmk when was the last time Denmark invented something remarkable/changed life/society/the way we think about health/convenience/technology? Annnnnnnd now you know why.

DP but all of that is hype and overrated.
How many of the last 10-20 years worth of advances really helped the common man?
A lot more have harmed than helped.

+1 and who thinks AI is really necessary? For what?

What? I invested myself into freedom, because of no fee when buying and selling stocks and being able to skip the banks.
Go Novo Nordisk and Wegovy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Denmark can afford such life style bc they have rich natural resources. France can afford bc they siphon resources from Africa. Americans are too proud so we will have to work hard for our life style.

I think you mean Norway. They have a $2TN sovereign wealth fund from all their oil & gas that they essentially will never have a budget deficit.