A depressing realization about American work culture

[Anonymous]

I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

You’re overthinking this. You don’t have to solve for America or the world. If you really want to move to Denmark, spend five years working hard and smart. You should be able to do so.

Otherwise, spend 5 years getting closer to the life you want in America. Cut down your spending, find jobs with better work-life balance.

[Anonymous]

At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure your thesis is totally clear here. You're complaining about a declining standard of living - roommates, apartments, and Walmart groceries - while also asserting that the solution is voluntarily adopting a lower standard of living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realized that American hustle + grind culture is inescapable.

American (US) work culture that requires usually way beyond the 40 hour work week, often calling for nights and weekends and limited ACTUAL vacation time - as in you don't take calls, don't bring your work computer etc - for anyone who actually wants to have the trappings of the American middle class lifestyle: A house, a couple of cars, a couple of kids etc. No longer can a conventional 9 to 5 pay for that. 9 to 5 is more 8 to 6 anyways, even for the normal office grunt jobs. Nowadays, if you stay in a normal, non-managerial position, your wages/salary will stagnate, won't keep up with inflation, and you'll struggle to even afford the tiny apartment or shared housing with roommates and budget/Walmart groceries you had in your 20s. If you want to have a single family home and afford children, you have to work longer hours and sacrifice work life balance. That's the reality.

This lack of work life balance creates a very unhealthy society, where people are incentivized to cut corners on their health - not finding time to exercise, eating processed convenience foods, being exhausted while mostly sedentary. We are a very unhappy and unhealthy society.

But if we took the work/life balance approach of the repeatedly happiest, healthiest, best work-life balanced country - Denmark, our entire economy would collapse.

Denmark has a 37 hour work week that pretty much holds true. They have a mandatory year (sometimes two years) of family (maternity and paternity) leave, and five weeks paid vacation. But if we were to be more like Denmark, it would require us to have an overall more modest and quiet life with less consumption. Smaller homes, fewer cars, fewer gadgets, less consumerism overall. People would have to (gasp) ride the train or (horror) the bus! This wouldn't look like Soviet socialism, but would be a drastically less consumptive lifestyle than most of us are used to. And could you imagine what would happen to the economy if we all collectively consumed 20-40% less? An ungodly recession. Job losses every which-way, except the same oligarchs would still secure their profits just passing all their losses onto us.

The American economy as we know it is fueled by consumer debt, hyper consumption, and overwork culture. There's nothing we can do about it.

You make a number of odd points.

To get anywhere it has always been the case that you have to work hard. You mention the conventional 9-5 life as a relic of the past where you could still have a good life. That has never been true. Even if you were in a 9-5 job 50- years ago, the people who made it or went ahead were the ones that worked harder. This is true with blue collar work -- the ones who do the overtime when needed are the ones that management trusts -- even in a union shop. This is nothing new.

There are jobs where you can opt out of all that but for every action there is a consequence.

Denmark in particular is right now rethinking things like a less than 40 hr work week and other benefits. You could move there and they could be gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

[Anonymous]

No, it's not all just overconsumption. I live in a very small house with one car, bike or take transit as much as I can, and buy secondhand. You still can't pay a mortgage and family health insurance on one salary in many jobs. (Mine? Sure. My spouse's? No.) It's not an individual issue. It's not that easy to opt out.

[Anonymous]

Denmark can afford such life style bc they have rich natural resources. France can afford bc they siphon resources from Africa. Americans are too proud so we will have to work hard for our life style.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Denmark can afford such life style bc they have rich natural resources. France can afford bc they siphon resources from Africa. Americans are too proud so we will have to work hard for our life style.

America isn’t rich in natural resources? What a bizarre argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

I’ve made awesome choices for myself, but it’s all a product of a lot of luck and privileges. I have an elite education that gave me my pick of jobs. My husband is also secure. The “average” person needs more options too.

[Anonymous]

How many jobs really require off hours calls and emails?

Not most of them. Usually the ones that do pay very well.
If your low pay job requires this, time to find a new job.

I don’t want to work more than 40 hours a week or take calls off hours. I will never crack 200k, but I’m ok with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

It is getting very hard to “opt out” of hustle culture, even if you are willing to accept living smaller. Even basic housing and healthcare are out of reach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

It is getting very hard to “opt out” of hustle culture, even if you are willing to accept living smaller. Even basic housing and healthcare are out of reach.

We have a labor supply issue. Now that we turned our friends back home to the south even less workers are building houses. Until the day both dems and magas start working in construction nothing will help this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not all just overconsumption. I live in a very small house with one car, bike or take transit as much as I can, and buy secondhand. You still can't pay a mortgage and family health insurance on one salary in many jobs. (Mine? Sure. My spouse's? No.) It's not an individual issue. It's not that easy to opt out.

Exactly. And even if you live small in America, you still cannot afford healthcare, especially as you age or especially if someone gets seriously ill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point only major collective action will allow Americans to have a better quality of life and work life balance. Consumerism is a cultural choice.

Why can't you just make different chouces for yourself?

There is no need for collective anything.

It is getting very hard to “opt out” of hustle culture, even if you are willing to accept living smaller. Even basic housing and healthcare are out of reach.

We have a labor supply issue. Now that we turned our friends back home to the south even less workers are building houses. Until the day both dems and magas start working in construction nothing will help this situation.

Culture needs to shift to stop building complete trash homes too.