AP Calculus AB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Is your kid a junior or senior.? If a junior, see if they can take BC perhaps somewhere else next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Auto-reject, no. That 'most' classmates reach BC or higher could play a factor in rigor perception, I would think. If AB is required before BC, then that would be a function of math tracking earlier on and might factor in differently than if students can choose to go AB or BC and most choose BC. In that I would think it possible those students get a 'bump' in rigor perception'.

I think the 'risk' is more that other students get a 'lift' versus your DC gets a 'demerit'. Kinda like test optional. They say not sending in a test score won't hurt you, but that doesnt mean it doesn't help the student that sends it in.

That said there are essays, recs, ECs, all the other classes taken, etc that factor in. It doesn't hinge on a single class taken/not taken but it is a game of inches.

Mostly this. In the game of inches the difference between calculus AB and BC is maybe a quarter of an inch.

OP is agonizing over things that matter only a little. I haven’t seen a single college website that suggests BC is better for admissions, even if it covers two additional chapters. The admission outcome will not rest on doing parametric curves and series in the senior year of high school.

Instead of worrying about this, have your daughter go to Red Cross this weekend and take a first aid class and certification to list as an extracurricular on the application if she’s interested. It’s going to count more than AB vs BC.

What the college website says is irrelevant. Your application is judged against your peers and the other applications they receive. Only going up to calc AB (and senior yr at that) and trying to get a spot at a top school for stem is likely not going to be in your favor. While it isn’t an automatic no, you aren’t going to have a grade in the class nor and AP score when your application is being considered. In a sea of applicants that all have calc BC or beyond, many of them before senior year, your application is going to be put aside

No, what colleges say is not irrelevant. They tell you how and by what metrics the application is judged against the other students from your school.

[Anonymous]

Colleges aren't always completely transparent. Many of the top schools say they do a screen to see if student could handle the academic rigor and they don't compare to other peers at the same school. But I'm pretty sure they do especially if there are 50+ applicants from the same school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Life sciences majors like biology and neuroscience usually do one semester calculus for life sciences which is very close to Calculus AB. Chemistry majors require the full two semesters of Calculus, akin to BC.

This being said, I don’t think colleges discriminate between the versions of calculus taken in high school for admissions purposes, especially if she entered high school with geometry in 9th. Calculus AB is roughly 80% the BC material.

Why is she not taking BC instead? Is it because the school has AB as prerequisite for BC, scheduling conflict issue, or she’s not confident in her abilities? If she’ll do well in AB she’ll do well in BC as well with a little more effort. It’s a good idea to explain on the application her high school course choices.

Just make sure the school doesn’t treat them differently as in not giving the most rigorous mark to AB students, so you need to talk to the counselor directly.

If she took AP Biology, Chemistry and Physics, has the gpa and extracurriculars she’ll be competitive to Top 15, but be aware admissions are a lottery at these schools.

She won’t be on auto reject because she got an A in Calculus AB.

Thank you to all who responded for helpful insights and advice. DD has excellent grades and rigor (just not in math) in her school but is not taking BC because of a health issue/medical treatment this semester and was advised to take a “balanced” senior course load. DD taking 5 other AP courses on top of calculus (to try to be as competitive with peers).

Just very worried because 85% of her class probably finishes HS with BC calc or higher. Not sure if will get the highest rigor mark by counselor because of this.

I know it's hard, but try your best not to worry about this.

As you know, your DD's health comes first. You've 100% made the right decision in course selection.

From here, it will be what it will be. I say this with kindness. It really will not help you to worry about this further.

Instead, I would talk directly with your DD's counselor about it. Make sure, before they fill out the "rigor" part, that they understand why DD took AB instead of BC. And ask them directly how they will weigh this decision when deciding whether or not to choose "highest rigor". At least then you'll know.

By the way, I would NOT recommend reaching out to a counselor about this under normal circumstances. But given that this is based on a health issue, I would do it if I were you. It's important the counselor has the context, and that conversation may nudge them to choosing "highest rigor" even if they would have done so otherwise.

Finally, your DD will also have the option of including this information in the part of the application where they invite additional information. Our counselor said this is one of the main uses of the section - unusual circumstances like medical restrictions that provide important context for the rest of the application.

Again, I'm no expert. But if it were my kid and it was a physical health issue (recovery from surgery or an extended illness etc.), it would be a no-brainer to include this information in the appropriate part of the application. However, if it were a mental health issue, I would be more careful and would seek advice from people with deeper knowledge and experience on this specific issue.

Though I certainly hope colleges value mental health and physical health equally, sadly, I would not assume so without additional information.

I know how hard it is not to worry. We all want our kids to be treated well and fairly in this ridiculous process. Hugs and good luck to you and your DD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, they will be penalized for college admissions, since they will be compared to peers in the same high school who went further. But they can still get all the degrees and become scientists, OP! So think long-term, not short-term.

The epitome of the race to nowhere. Plenty of time to take higher math in college. If you are competing in a high school where there will be a bunch of competitive applications for science majors with higher math, and perfect gpas and high test scores, DD could consider not listing a hard science major. Most schools don't bind you to that choice. Perhaps something adjacent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Life sciences majors like biology and neuroscience usually do one semester calculus for life sciences which is very close to Calculus AB. Chemistry majors require the full two semesters of Calculus, akin to BC.

This being said, I don’t think colleges discriminate between the versions of calculus taken in high school for admissions purposes, especially if she entered high school with geometry in 9th. Calculus AB is roughly 80% the BC material.

Why is she not taking BC instead? Is it because the school has AB as prerequisite for BC, scheduling conflict issue, or she’s not confident in her abilities? If she’ll do well in AB she’ll do well in BC as well with a little more effort. It’s a good idea to explain on the application her high school course choices.

Just make sure the school doesn’t treat them differently as in not giving the most rigorous mark to AB students, so you need to talk to the counselor directly.

If she took AP Biology, Chemistry and Physics, has the gpa and extracurriculars she’ll be competitive to Top 15, but be aware admissions are a lottery at these schools.

She won’t be on auto reject because she got an A in Calculus AB.

Thank you to all who responded for helpful insights and advice. DD has excellent grades and rigor (just not in math) in her school but is not taking BC because of a health issue/medical treatment this semester and was advised to take a “balanced” senior course load. DD taking 5 other AP courses on top of calculus (to try to be as competitive with peers).

Just very worried because 85% of her class probably finishes HS with BC calc or higher. Not sure if will get the highest rigor mark by counselor because of this.

I know it's hard, but try your best not to worry about this.

As you know, your DD's health comes first. You've 100% made the right decision in course selection.

From here, it will be what it will be. I say this with kindness. It really will not help you to worry about this further.

Instead, I would talk directly with your DD's counselor about it. Make sure, before they fill out the "rigor" part, that they understand why DD took AB instead of BC. And ask them directly how they will weigh this decision when deciding whether or not to choose "highest rigor". At least then you'll know.

By the way, I would NOT recommend reaching out to a counselor about this under normal circumstances. But given that this is based on a health issue, I would do it if I were you. It's important the counselor has the context, and that conversation may nudge them to choosing "highest rigor" even if they would have done so otherwise.

Finally, your DD will also have the option of including this information in the part of the application where they invite additional information. Our counselor said this is one of the main uses of the section - unusual circumstances like medical restrictions that provide important context for the rest of the application.

Again, I'm no expert. But if it were my kid and it was a physical health issue (recovery from surgery or an extended illness etc.), it would be a no-brainer to include this information in the appropriate part of the application. However, if it were a mental health issue, I would be more careful and would seek advice from people with deeper knowledge and experience on this specific issue.

Though I certainly hope colleges value mental health and physical health equally, sadly, I would not assume so without additional information.

I know how hard it is not to worry. We all want our kids to be treated well and fairly in this ridiculous process. Hugs and good luck to you and your DD!

Thank you so much for your advice and kindness. It’s not a mental health issue. I will contact school counselor to discuss and hope my daughter will provide context in the additional info section as well. I guess we’ll never know the exact reason(s) why kids are accepted or rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Auto-reject, no. That 'most' classmates reach BC or higher could play a factor in rigor perception, I would think. If AB is required before BC, then that would be a function of math tracking earlier on and might factor in differently than if students can choose to go AB or BC and most choose BC. In that I would think it possible those students get a 'bump' in rigor perception'.

I think the 'risk' is more that other students get a 'lift' versus your DC gets a 'demerit'. Kinda like test optional. They say not sending in a test score won't hurt you, but that doesnt mean it doesn't help the student that sends it in.

That said there are essays, recs, ECs, all the other classes taken, etc that factor in. It doesn't hinge on a single class taken/not taken but it is a game of inches.

Mostly this. In the game of inches the difference between calculus AB and BC is maybe a quarter of an inch.

OP is agonizing over things that matter only a little. I haven’t seen a single college website that suggests BC is better for admissions, even if it covers two additional chapters. The admission outcome will not rest on doing parametric curves and series in the senior year of high school.

Instead of worrying about this, have your daughter go to Red Cross this weekend and take a first aid class and certification to list as an extracurricular on the application if she’s interested. It’s going to count more than AB vs BC.

What the college website says is irrelevant. Your application is judged against your peers and the other applications they receive. Only going up to calc AB (and senior yr at that) and trying to get a spot at a top school for stem is likely not going to be in your favor. While it isn’t an automatic no, you aren’t going to have a grade in the class nor and AP score when your application is being considered. In a sea of applicants that all have calc BC or beyond, many of them before senior year, your application is going to be put aside

No, what colleges say is not irrelevant. They tell you how and by what metrics the application is judged against the other students from your school.

They give general statements to maximize number of applicants, and to not discourage anyone. If you are applying to a college that has an under 10% admissions rate and top want to major in stem, talking calc AB your senior year is pretty much is going to make your already slim chances near zero. According to the MIT website students applying should have “at least some single variable calculus” and “at least some biology, chemistry, and physics by the time they graduate.” They don’t require any AP classes at all. But if you think you are going to get into MIT taking calc AB and zero AP sciences, if your school offers them (because they don’t say it is required or even recommend it), then you are very delusional.

[Anonymous]

Mine was. 4.3 gpa/1550 SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Auto-reject, no. That 'most' classmates reach BC or higher could play a factor in rigor perception, I would think. If AB is required before BC, then that would be a function of math tracking earlier on and might factor in differently than if students can choose to go AB or BC and most choose BC. In that I would think it possible those students get a 'bump' in rigor perception'.

I think the 'risk' is more that other students get a 'lift' versus your DC gets a 'demerit'. Kinda like test optional. They say not sending in a test score won't hurt you, but that doesnt mean it doesn't help the student that sends it in.

That said there are essays, recs, ECs, all the other classes taken, etc that factor in. It doesn't hinge on a single class taken/not taken but it is a game of inches.

Mostly this. In the game of inches the difference between calculus AB and BC is maybe a quarter of an inch.

OP is agonizing over things that matter only a little. I haven’t seen a single college website that suggests BC is better for admissions, even if it covers two additional chapters. The admission outcome will not rest on doing parametric curves and series in the senior year of high school.

Instead of worrying about this, have your daughter go to Red Cross this weekend and take a first aid class and certification to list as an extracurricular on the application if she’s interested. It’s going to count more than AB vs BC.

What the college website says is irrelevant. Your application is judged against your peers and the other applications they receive. Only going up to calc AB (and senior yr at that) and trying to get a spot at a top school for stem is likely not going to be in your favor. While it isn’t an automatic no, you aren’t going to have a grade in the class nor and AP score when your application is being considered. In a sea of applicants that all have calc BC or beyond, many of them before senior year, your application is going to be put aside

No, what colleges say is not irrelevant. They tell you how and by what metrics the application is judged against the other students from your school.

They give general statements to maximize number of applicants, and to not discourage anyone. If you are applying to a college that has an under 10% admissions rate and top want to major in stem, talking calc AB your senior year is pretty much is going to make your already slim chances near zero. According to the MIT website students applying should have “at least some single variable calculus” and “at least some biology, chemistry, and physics by the time they graduate.” They don’t require any AP classes at all. But if you think you are going to get into MIT taking calc AB and zero AP sciences, if your school offers them (because they don’t say it is required or even recommend it), then you are very delusional.

It doesn’t sound like you read the page carefully, or you have the reading comprehension of a middle schooler.

[Anonymous]

At least at our private, GPA is far more important than rigor. High rigor 3.7 kids suffer from this, whereas lower rigor 3.8+ pretty much has a shot at all ivies other than HYP. It doesn't make sense but that's what scattergrams show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Life sciences majors like biology and neuroscience usually do one semester calculus for life sciences which is very close to Calculus AB. Chemistry majors require the full two semesters of Calculus, akin to BC.

This being said, I don’t think colleges discriminate between the versions of calculus taken in high school for admissions purposes, especially if she entered high school with geometry in 9th. Calculus AB is roughly 80% the BC material.

Why is she not taking BC instead? Is it because the school has AB as prerequisite for BC, scheduling conflict issue, or she’s not confident in her abilities? If she’ll do well in AB she’ll do well in BC as well with a little more effort. It’s a good idea to explain on the application her high school course choices.

Just make sure the school doesn’t treat them differently as in not giving the most rigorous mark to AB students, so you need to talk to the counselor directly.

If she took AP Biology, Chemistry and Physics, has the gpa and extracurriculars she’ll be competitive to Top 15, but be aware admissions are a lottery at these schools.

She won’t be on auto reject because she got an A in Calculus AB.

Thank you to all who responded for helpful insights and advice. DD has excellent grades and rigor (just not in math) in her school but is not taking BC because of a health issue/medical treatment this semester and was advised to take a “balanced” senior course load. DD taking 5 other AP courses on top of calculus (to try to be as competitive with peers).

Just very worried because 85% of her class probably finishes HS with BC calc or higher. Not sure if will get the highest rigor mark by counselor because of this.

I know it's hard, but try your best not to worry about this.

As you know, your DD's health comes first. You've 100% made the right decision in course selection.

From here, it will be what it will be. I say this with kindness. It really will not help you to worry about this further.

Instead, I would talk directly with your DD's counselor about it. Make sure, before they fill out the "rigor" part, that they understand why DD took AB instead of BC. And ask them directly how they will weigh this decision when deciding whether or not to choose "highest rigor". At least then you'll know.

By the way, I would NOT recommend reaching out to a counselor about this under normal circumstances. But given that this is based on a health issue, I would do it if I were you. It's important the counselor has the context, and that conversation may nudge them to choosing "highest rigor" even if they would have done so otherwise.

Finally, your DD will also have the option of including this information in the part of the application where they invite additional information. Our counselor said this is one of the main uses of the section - unusual circumstances like medical restrictions that provide important context for the rest of the application.

Again, I'm no expert. But if it were my kid and it was a physical health issue (recovery from surgery or an extended illness etc.), it would be a no-brainer to include this information in the appropriate part of the application. However, if it were a mental health issue, I would be more careful and would seek advice from people with deeper knowledge and experience on this specific issue.

Though I certainly hope colleges value mental health and physical health equally, sadly, I would not assume so without additional information.

I know how hard it is not to worry. We all want our kids to be treated well and fairly in this ridiculous process. Hugs and good luck to you and your DD!

Thank you so much for your advice and kindness. It’s not a mental health issue. I will contact school counselor to discuss and hope my daughter will provide context in the additional info section as well. I guess we’ll never know the exact reason(s) why kids are accepted or rejected.

Happy to help. Your last sentence is 100% true, and of course, another potential source of stress for us all. There's an element of randomness to this process, no matter what we do.

One last thought - I obviously don't know your high school, your daughter, or her counselor. But if it's at all possible, I think there's extra value in first having your daughter talk with her counselor about this, before you reach out with a follow up.

The counselor will be the person writing your daughter's recommendation (in addition to checking the rigor box), and any one-on-one experience they have your daughter is likely to help them write a more personal recommendation. Even if that recommendation never explicitly mentions your daughter's health challenge. In our experience, counselors appreciate when kids advocate for themselves (appropriately and kindly) rather than rely 100% on their parents to do so for them. It's not always easy (some of our kids are more shy than others) but counselors tend to understand that and genuinely want to do right by their students. They just have a big workload and it's hard to know every kid well. Even a single conversation about this is a way for your daughter to show her counselor how committed she is to her academics, and also that she is mature enough to advocate for herself in an appropriate way. (This is a key skill for success in college.)

All that said, I'd follow up with the counselor after to confirm. Probably in an email - thanking them for taking the time to speak with your daughter, and for reassuring her that her health challenge isn't going to erase all her hard work from the earlier three years.

Heartfelt and true. Hugs to you both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AP Calculus AB is the highest math my DC reaches, will they be auto rejected from T15 as a biology/chemistry/neuroscience major? DC attends competitive public in over-represented area with most classmates reaching BC calc or higher.

Life sciences majors like biology and neuroscience usually do one semester calculus for life sciences which is very close to Calculus AB. Chemistry majors require the full two semesters of Calculus, akin to BC.

This being said, I don’t think colleges discriminate between the versions of calculus taken in high school for admissions purposes, especially if she entered high school with geometry in 9th. Calculus AB is roughly 80% the BC material.

Why is she not taking BC instead? Is it because the school has AB as prerequisite for BC, scheduling conflict issue, or she’s not confident in her abilities? If she’ll do well in AB she’ll do well in BC as well with a little more effort. It’s a good idea to explain on the application her high school course choices.

Just make sure the school doesn’t treat them differently as in not giving the most rigorous mark to AB students, so you need to talk to the counselor directly.

If she took AP Biology, Chemistry and Physics, has the gpa and extracurriculars she’ll be competitive to Top 15, but be aware admissions are a lottery at these schools.

She won’t be on auto reject because she got an A in Calculus AB.

Thank you to all who responded for helpful insights and advice. DD has excellent grades and rigor (just not in math) in her school but is not taking BC because of a health issue/medical treatment this semester and was advised to take a “balanced” senior course load. DD taking 5 other AP courses on top of calculus (to try to be as competitive with peers).

Just very worried because 85% of her class probably finishes HS with BC calc or higher. Not sure if will get the highest rigor mark by counselor because of this.

It sounds a bit like a cop out to taking less rigorous coursework. Who advised her to take a balanced load, and why can’t BC be part of a balanced but challenging coursework? I think it’s bad advice, BC is the same as AB in the beginning, although at a somewhat faster pace. She is choosing less rigorous classes, it’s not because of the math placement she started high school with, and it’s not because the high school makes AB a prerequisite for BC. If the counselor won’t give the highest rigor mark, it is understandable and it’s gong to be a negative for the application.

You also mentioned the grades, does she have anything less than A in prior math classes? If she had straight As in honors math she should have gone straight to BC, no question about it. If she had maybe a B in precalculus then it’s understandable why she chose AB, but that will be a negative on grades and gpa, especially for top 15.

In the end if the counselor gives most rigor, she’ll still be competitive, but very little was provided about grades and rigor. She needs 10-12 APs in the core classes and good extracurriculars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, they will be penalized for college admissions, since they will be compared to peers in the same high school who went further. But they can still get all the degrees and become scientists, OP! So think long-term, not short-term.

The epitome of the race to nowhere. Plenty of time to take higher math in college. If you are competing in a high school where there will be a bunch of competitive applications for science majors with higher math, and perfect gpas and high test scores, DD could consider not listing a hard science major. Most schools don't bind you to that choice. Perhaps something adjacent.

Neuroscience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mine was. 4.3 gpa/1550 SAT.

STEM major?

[Anonymous]

I think AB could be problematic if their peers all have BC. Sorry.