Post calculus classes in HS

[Anonymous]

My kid took MVC, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school through a university online course. He’s repeating all three because he won’t get credit for those courses. On the other hand, he took physics C and didn’t repeat those intro courses because he got 5s on E&M and mechanics APs and will get credit at his school. He started in an intermediate physics class, and it seemed to go fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One option is to retake the class in college as an extra class. If you've already taken it, then retaking it shouldn't be a big workload. And if they don't want to worry about wasting time on all the assignments, they could audit it or take it pass/fail, if that's an option. I took AP physics and then took physics 101 as a 5th course (in a school where the standard load was 4 courses) pass/fail freshman year as a refresher.

But it's really going to depend on how the course is taught in HS and college. My child is took calc BC as a junior and is taking discrete math as a 12th grader, but the teacher was clear that he was not teaching a college level class, and that the students would not be ready to skip discrete math in college, but if they took it they would probably find it pretty easy since they'd have already seen most of it.

A big difference between calculus in hs and in college is the use of calculators. Some professors in college will outright ban them for tests and many will only allow a basic one. Many hs kids cheat on learning calculus because they rely on demos or a TI-84/nspire.

Well now I’m thankful that my kid’s HS teachers significantly limit calculator use. I thought they were being unnecessarily hardass but I guess it will be a good foundation!

[Anonymous]

I think this is highly dependent on quality of HS teaching. My HS senior is taking MVC at a university after BC junior year, and he is doing very well—but his BC teacher was excellent.

If your kid wants to take MVC, I’d let him, with the caveat that if he struggles he take it again in college. If he has any doubt, his university will almost certainly offer a placement test that will indicate whether or not he needs to repeat it.

[Anonymous]

For parents whose kids have taken MV/Diff Eq/LA via HS, did your child receive college credit?

When they take the BC exam, if they score high enough, they get college credit at many schools. MV et al are higher levels--how is credit handled if taken in HS?

I saw at RM (slide 39) that there is a test from UMD offered. Do all MCPS schools that offer MV et al offer this test?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/guidance/rmhs-hs-courses.pdf

If no college credit is provided, would it be better to take the course as DE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid took MVC, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school through a university online course. He’s repeating all three because he won’t get credit for those courses. On the other hand, he took physics C and didn’t repeat those intro courses because he got 5s on E&M and mechanics APs and will get credit at his school. He started in an intermediate physics class, and it seemed to go fine.

Do they allow him to challenge those courses for credit or placement? Or take a more challenging (e.g. proof based) version?

[Anonymous]

My kid really loved math and physics and took all those courses you list in high school. He also did a lot of self study over the summer and wanted to be a math or physics major. He was able to place out of a lot of the freshmen and sophomore courses based on AP credit, placement exams or just talking his way out of or into a class.

But ymv depending on the college, departments, and the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I don’t see the harm in having to repeat them in college. It’s a big adjustment to college academics so if they have a couple of classes where they can easily do well…then great!!

Careful in this. There are weed out classes that it doesn't matter if you are repeating or not. Check first before repeating. It's best to avoid weed-out classes which are Freshman/Sophomore level classes. Weed out is when a college accepts more kids for a program then they have slots for.

There are a lot of MIT Engineers that graduated with a Business degree.

This is good advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC took MV Calc, Linear Alg, and Multivariable Equations as Dual Enrollment in HS. He was able to get credit for all of these at his top 20 private university so does not have to repeat them. He also got credit for Calc BC since he got a 5 on the AP exam. He took Physics C as well, but only got a 4 on the APs for both Mech and EM so he didn't get credit as his university only gives credit for a 5 in that one. Each school differs in what they will award. For the DE classes, my son had to submit the syllabi from the class for the registrar to compare.

Is his "Top 20" Private University a "Top 5" Engineering Program. These schools can be more picky with credit for high school stem.

[Anonymous]

I think DCUM parents are generally too insistent on repeating single variable calculus but I would be wary of skipping the sophomore mvc/la sequence for a higher math class, unless maybe it's intro to proofs.

The reason Harvard has Math 55, which is sort of a mutant version of the typical sophomore sequence, is as a containment measure to keep freshmen out of upper level math classes for which they lack the maturity.

You should have at least one college level math class under your belt before jumping into advanced topics imo. Can't answer for physics.

[Anonymous]

I think it's a good idea to take as much math as you can in HS if you're aiming for a top STEM admit. That gets you in the door.

DC is at a top engineering program and could have tested out of Calc 3 at the beginning of the year, but opted to take it again to make sure their foundation is solid. Also re-taking Physics-C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I don’t see the harm in having to repeat them in college. It’s a big adjustment to college academics so if they have a couple of classes where they can easily do well…then great!!

Careful in this. There are weed out classes that it doesn't matter if you are repeating or not. Check first before repeating. It's best to avoid weed-out classes which are Freshman/Sophomore level classes. Weed out is when a college accepts more kids for a program then they have slots for.

There are a lot of MIT Engineers that graduated with a Business degree.

If you're struggling with Calc 1 and intro physics in college, that's actually a sign you should take these classes to fill knowledge gaps rather than avoid them. Weed out classes are notorious for catching underprepared or unserious students, not incapable ones. I'd rather my kid build a strong foundation in the basics before hitting upper level courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For parents whose kids have taken MV/Diff Eq/LA via HS, did your child receive college credit?

When they take the BC exam, if they score high enough, they get college credit at many schools. MV et al are higher levels--how is credit handled if taken in HS?

I saw at RM (slide 39) that there is a test from UMD offered. Do all MCPS schools that offer MV et al offer this test?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/guidance/rmhs-hs-courses.pdf

If no college credit is provided, would it be better to take the course as DE?

My child graduated from RM and is at UMD now. I believe Blair also offers the UMD MVC test. I don't know about other high schools.

Not only did kid get credit for MVC, also got an A grade that transferred. Unlike DE, AP, IB; for that specific MVC test, the grade also transfers if you enroll at UMD and want the grade as well. If you don't like the grade, you can take the class again. The test is the same one that UMD students take, and it is graded by a UMD professor.

[Anonymous]

My kid (physics major) took MVC/LE and Physics C in high school.

His college technically allowed but strongly discouraged skipping E&M in college based on Physics C AP exam. He ended up deciding to retake both courses as a college freshman. It was nice to have a couple of classes that were review of material he'd seen before, and there were enough differences in the college version vs the high school version that he was happy to have retaken them.

I wouldn't necessarily skip those classes in HS, though, just because he would need to take them again. It is a good intro and will make freshman year a lot easier ... and showing 'highest available rigor' is important to a lot of colleges in the application process.

[Anonymous]

My two kids both got As in BC and repeated Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. I teach at a university and we generally recommend that students retake it unless they felt really comfortable that they mastered the material. You just don't want to start out with weak preparation and worst case scenario, it's an easy A for them freshman year.

This is BC. I'd say an upper level class might be ever more important to repeat.

One thing, though. One of my kids ended up as an applied math major and actually linear algebra wasn't required but was a soft prerequisite for a couple of other courses. She took it at MC and didn't even transfer it to her college. So if she'd had it in HS, she would have saved an annoyance one summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would still take them in HS, but use them as an introduction to the college coursework, just don’t plan to skip them in college. If he wants to do engineering it will be good to have some foundation because it’s very challenging at most schools.

I agree with this.