cotillion question

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't knock it or assume stereotypes if your kid hasn't actually attended. Last year they were begging for more girls in 6th grade, so I think the numbers fluctuate. My dd signed up late when they sent out more emails asking for more girls to get some boys off the wl.
A few of my kids have participated over the years, and I found it more to be about manners, interacting with appropriate manners to adults, writing correct thank you notes, good eye contact, table manners, etc. They also learn more classical dances which have come in handy for my older kids in attending weddings, more formal dances, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sent DD last year and I thought it was worthwhile. We talked about the gender stuff with DD at home, because it is old fashioned, but I also think there's value in knowing the traditional behavior that many people practice and expect, and that includes some gendered etiquette.

As a small example, I'm a woman and will hold the door for people around me. But I work with several men who will move to get the door or let me exit first, and there's value in knowing how to gracefully accept that courtesy instead of being surprised or awkward about it. And someone being gay does not alter the social expectation around who gets the door.

If you need to pay some organization a bunch of money to learn how to go through a door someone is holding, that’s the least of your problems. Christ almighty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't knock it or assume stereotypes if your kid hasn't actually attended. Last year they were begging for more girls in 6th grade, so I think the numbers fluctuate. My dd signed up late when they sent out more emails asking for more girls to get some boys off the wl.
A few of my kids have participated over the years, and I found it more to be about manners, interacting with appropriate manners to adults, writing correct thank you notes, good eye contact, table manners, etc. They also learn more classical dances which have come in handy for my older kids in attending weddings, more formal dances, etc.

At every grade level the classes are waitlisted for girls unless they can bring along a boy. take a look at pop up window.
https://capitalcotillion.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They learn manners. That can't be bad. Isn't a LGBTQ issue

It is if the idea of girls dancing with other girls is so scary that they'd rather exclude girls who want to participate.

This is a little too glib. When you learn to dance, you learn the steps based on whether you lead or follow. Learning both is an advanced skill, and you don't usually learn both at the same time. Especially in a once-a-month class for kids where dancing is only part of the program: there's just not time for that level of dance instruction.

So if girls are dancing with other girls, one of them is learning to lead. I would not assume that a gay girl, even if out, necessarily wants to learn to lead. It would be very weird to put that pressure on her to choose. And a straight girl presumably does not want to learn to lead.

What you want is a cotillion class that doesn't include ballroom dancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sent DD last year and I thought it was worthwhile. We talked about the gender stuff with DD at home, because it is old fashioned, but I also think there's value in knowing the traditional behavior that many people practice and expect, and that includes some gendered etiquette.

As a small example, I'm a woman and will hold the door for people around me. But I work with several men who will move to get the door or let me exit first, and there's value in knowing how to gracefully accept that courtesy instead of being surprised or awkward about it. And someone being gay does not alter the social expectation around who gets the door.

If you need to pay some organization a bunch of money to learn how to go through a door someone is holding, that’s the least of your problems. Christ almighty.

You don't need to pay for any of this, if you are willing to spend a lot of time with your kid role playing common social situations. Most people don't do that, or think the message comes better from a non-parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just transitioned from public to private for middle school, where half the grade is doing Capital Cotillion, and there is general consternation about how new girls can't participate because they don't have enough boys.

This is not an issue for me as we wouldn't be doing it regardless, but it does make me pause and wonder: How does thing remain so popular and yet so totally frozen in amber? I have so many questions... If you are sending your young adolescents, do you worry about how alienating it may feel to LGBTQ adolescents who aren't "out" yet, and how do you handle that?

The website says "While we embrace tradition and the importance it plays in our society, we believe that keeping current with the needs of today’s youth is equally important. We prepare our students with social skills for the “elite experience” without promoting the elitist paradigm of the past."

The fact that they won't deviate from their 50-50 gender ratio just seems AWFULLY out of step. Can someone explain why someone can't do something more inclusive? There are plenty of ballroom dancing studios that manage to do better ....

(Also, a little more snarky now: How DOES "the elite experience" differs from "the elitist paradigm of the past"? Anyone able to explain?)

you sound like a jerk. if you don't want cotillion for your kids, that's great, but no need to dump on the families who like it. try to be more tolerant and perhaps get a life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They learn manners. That can't be bad. Isn't a LGBTQ issue

It is if the idea of girls dancing with other girls is so scary that they'd rather exclude girls who want to participate.

This is a little too glib. When you learn to dance, you learn the steps based on whether you lead or follow. Learning both is an advanced skill, and you don't usually learn both at the same time. Especially in a once-a-month class for kids where dancing is only part of the program: there's just not time for that level of dance instruction.

So if girls are dancing with other girls, one of them is learning to lead. I would not assume that a gay girl, even if out, necessarily wants to learn to lead. It would be very weird to put that pressure on her to choose. And a straight girl presumably does not want to learn to lead.

What you want is a cotillion class that doesn't include ballroom dancing.

What about a cotillion where everyone learns to be both leaders and followers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cotillion is a part of traditional society. If a family finds it valuable and is invited, then go. If a family decides it is not valuable, then skip.

Make whichever choice makes sense for your family's situation, but either way one should expect any cotillion to be fairly traditional culturally.

I sure wish someone would come up with something a little more 21st century, because GOODNESS kids need so.much.help with etiquette and social skills and it's such a shame that you would limit participation based on BALLROOM DANCING RATIOS.

What about an etiquette class?

That is literally what it is. They aren’t doing ballroom dances the entire time (by any stretch).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They learn manners. That can't be bad. Isn't a LGBTQ issue

+1
I don't think they should exclude people based on gender equalization, but it's no my hill to die on - I simply don't care that much. And I don't even care that you will get upset by my apathy - life it too hard and short to fight other people's battles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just transitioned from public to private for middle school, where half the grade is doing Capital Cotillion, and there is general consternation about how new girls can't participate because they don't have enough boys.

This is not an issue for me as we wouldn't be doing it regardless, but it does make me pause and wonder: How does thing remain so popular and yet so totally frozen in amber? I have so many questions... If you are sending your young adolescents, do you worry about how alienating it may feel to LGBTQ adolescents who aren't "out" yet, and how do you handle that?

The website says "While we embrace tradition and the importance it plays in our society, we believe that keeping current with the needs of today’s youth is equally important. We prepare our students with social skills for the “elite experience” without promoting the elitist paradigm of the past."

The fact that they won't deviate from their 50-50 gender ratio just seems AWFULLY out of step. Can someone explain why someone can't do something more inclusive? There are plenty of ballroom dancing studios that manage to do better ....

(Also, a little more snarky now: How DOES "the elite experience" differs from "the elitist paradigm of the past"? Anyone able to explain?)

you sound like a jerk. if you don't want cotillion for your kids, that's great, but no need to dump on the families who like it. try to be more tolerant and perhaps get a life?

+1 I think PP could benefit from Cotillion

[Anonymous]

My daughters have enjoyed it, and the manners lessons are age appropriate and better taught by those instructors. We have lots of LBGTQ friends and family so they know how to be sensitive to those issues, though aknowleging that most people are in hetero relationships and you can learn to dance traditionally with a boy isn't a bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Oh relax. They’re learning to dance, not learning to date. If you have a boy who wants to learn to follow and has a +1 who’s willing to learn to lead, then say so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]I didn't send my boys because I view it as elitist (and dumb). I was asked by a number of moms (of both girls and boys) to sign my kids up with theirs and I refused to do so.

[/b]


And I chose to have both of my kids, boy and girl, do it. The daughter used it at dances at college. The son used it at formal dances and balls at Oxford and Harvard. He actually knew what to do at those events. When I went to Harvard from California, I didn't have a clue how to fox-trot, so I hid in a corner. I wanted my kids to kow how to behave, conduct themselves and dance in those situations. Your choice . . .

[Anonymous]

WTH is the "elite experience"?

[Anonymous]

I feel like some of you commenting have never had an 11 or 12 year-old child. My kids did cotillion and it was a positive experience. I saw that even more as they got slightly older. They did it with their school friends and by 6th and 7th grade, the boys and girls who had avoided each other like the plague in 3rd and 4th had developed nice friendships and had years of experience dancing with each other. Since the kids join with friends, cotillion was always a safe space where the kids could learn how to be together in a different setting from school, a more formal setting with different rules. They will rarely need to waltz in adult life, but I could definitely see how my boys got more comfortable with themselves and their own bodies in social settings through that practice. Middle school is hard. A little organized practice in social situations benefits most kids and working through your own uncomfortableness is a safe space is how you become comfortable with yourself.