Divorce trial and judgement questions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, well I am biased here, but what we are hung up on is that he is a total a-hole.

I absolutely do NOT want to pay for trial, but with the way the first attempt at mediation went, I am worried that we will end up there.

I have a very specific list of things i want and I’m just wondering if mediation is the ONLY way to get what I want, or if it’s possible to give a judge the list of things I’m looking for and actually end up with some of them…. Or is a court decision going to be more of a blunt instrument, like “sell everything and split it according to my instructions”

But what does this mean? It is one thing to say "I want 50% of his 401k because that's what the law requires" and another to say "I want this specific painting and will deduct its cash value in my portion of the settlement" and another to say you want something random with no fixed end date and no set value like the cat pedicures in perpetuity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I don’t actually have a cat. And if I DID have a cat, the cat would not get pedicures. Just trying to throw out a hypothetical and also avoid identifying myself too much because this IS pretty specific.

My more general question is how detailed judgments are in a trial. Like is the outcome going to be - sell everything and split it down the middle, or is going to be more nuanced like: Larla takes the house in the vineyard as part of her half and Larlo gets the Château in France and the vintage car collection.

I will definitely be asking my lawyer more questions, but since he’s about $700 an hour and you guys are free, I figured it would be helpful to see what other people have experienced. My lawyer seems very eager to go to trial, so I’m not sure I’m getting the best answers about the details. In all fairness to my lawyer, his goal is to get me the max possible, not to worry about the details like cat pedicures or who gets the 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder.

You get what you pay for. Only a lawyer with specific knowledge of the details of your situation can answer. Anything else you can just Google.

I'd be a little skeptical of a divorce lawyer who is eager to go to trial, personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I don’t actually have a cat. And if I DID have a cat, the cat would not get pedicures. Just trying to throw out a hypothetical and also avoid identifying myself too much because this IS pretty specific.

My more general question is how detailed judgments are in a trial. Like is the outcome going to be - sell everything and split it down the middle, or is going to be more nuanced like: Larla takes the house in the vineyard as part of her half and Larlo gets the Château in France and the vintage car collection.

I will definitely be asking my lawyer more questions, but since he’s about $700 an hour and you guys are free, I figured it would be helpful to see what other people have experienced. My lawyer seems very eager to go to trial, so I’m not sure I’m getting the best answers about the details. In all fairness to my lawyer, his goal is to get me the max possible, not to worry about the details like cat pedicures or who gets the 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder.

Find a cheaper lawyer. If you are that wealthy pay for one. Your lawyer should be able to advise you on what's reasonable as can google. Usually what is split how is decided before going to court and if a court does it, it will detail it. Why not work it out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, I don’t actually have a cat. And if I DID have a cat, the cat would not get pedicures. Just trying to throw out a hypothetical and also avoid identifying myself too much because this IS pretty specific.

My more general question is how detailed judgments are in a trial. Like is the outcome going to be - sell everything and split it down the middle, or is going to be more nuanced like: Larla takes the house in the vineyard as part of her half and Larlo gets the Château in France and the vintage car collection.

I will definitely be asking my lawyer more questions, but since he’s about $700 an hour and you guys are free, I figured it would be helpful to see what other people have experienced. My lawyer seems very eager to go to trial, so I’m not sure I’m getting the best answers about the details. In all fairness to my lawyer, his goal is to get me the max possible, not to worry about the details like cat pedicures or who gets the 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder.

You get what you pay for. Only a lawyer with specific knowledge of the details of your situation can answer. Anything else you can just Google.

I'd be a little skeptical of a divorce lawyer who is eager to go to trial, personally.

Ditto. Also Google your states laws on distribution and child support etc. The answers might be more straightforward than you realize. Lawyers often want to make it look like things are so complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going to trial in a divorce is so incredibly financially dumb. Unless he is worth millions and you stand to lose millions. Otherwise, settle and be done.

I had to go to trial because my ex was hiding significant assets and refused to reach a settlement approaching an even split. My very good lawyer gave mediation for a couple of hours, then told me to be done and go to court. The whole thing was insanely expensive, but unavoidable under the circumstances, and we did have millions. Instead of forcing a sale of everything, the judge agreed with a proposal from my lawyer to split assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to trial in a divorce is so incredibly financially dumb. Unless he is worth millions and you stand to lose millions. Otherwise, settle and be done.

I had to go to trial because my ex was hiding significant assets and refused to reach a settlement approaching an even split. My very good lawyer gave mediation for a couple of hours, then told me to be done and go to court. The whole thing was insanely expensive, but unavoidable under the circumstances, and we did have millions. Instead of forcing a sale of everything, the judge agreed with a proposal from my lawyer to split assets.

Not to be a bit?h but everyone wants to think their lawyer is ‘the best’ but frankly one mediation session is ridiculous and no reason to go to trial other than he made tens of thousands of dollars off you instead of five figures.

- signed lawyer

[Anonymous]

I love when people ask strangers on the internet for advice. You should aim for no fewer than half a dozen rounds of mediation. The judge will decide based on their mood and ideas they get from watching movies on Netflix that have judges in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to trial in a divorce is so incredibly financially dumb. Unless he is worth millions and you stand to lose millions. Otherwise, settle and be done.

I had to go to trial because my ex was hiding significant assets and refused to reach a settlement approaching an even split. My very good lawyer gave mediation for a couple of hours, then told me to be done and go to court. The whole thing was insanely expensive, but unavoidable under the circumstances, and we did have millions. Instead of forcing a sale of everything, the judge agreed with a proposal from my lawyer to split assets.

Not to be a bit?h but everyone wants to think their lawyer is ‘the best’ but frankly one mediation session is ridiculous and no reason to go to trial other than he made tens of thousands of dollars off you instead of five figures.

- signed lawyer

NP. Is there a way to keep the divorce down to five figures with a highly contentious STBX who will not see reason and ask for things that are flat out not safe for kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love when people ask strangers on the internet for advice. You should aim for no fewer than half a dozen rounds of mediation. The judge will decide based on their mood and ideas they get from watching movies on Netflix that have judges in them.

Honestly when it comes to this stuff, it is very helpful to asks others who have BTDT and a lot of people don’t want to ask their friends bc they’re embarrassed to discuss money etc.

Lawyers will give you some answers but their answers will be tailored to what benefits them. Your response on mediation is already better than what the poster above with the high priced litigation got from her lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to trial in a divorce is so incredibly financially dumb. Unless he is worth millions and you stand to lose millions. Otherwise, settle and be done.

I had to go to trial because my ex was hiding significant assets and refused to reach a settlement approaching an even split. My very good lawyer gave mediation for a couple of hours, then told me to be done and go to court. The whole thing was insanely expensive, but unavoidable under the circumstances, and we did have millions. Instead of forcing a sale of everything, the judge agreed with a proposal from my lawyer to split assets.

Not to be a bit?h but everyone wants to think their lawyer is ‘the best’ but frankly one mediation session is ridiculous and no reason to go to trial other than he made tens of thousands of dollars off you instead of five figures.

- signed lawyer

I hear you, and I'm the PP and also a lawyer (but not a litigator). Mediation was never going to work. He hired a terrible, cheap attorney and didn't provide anything we requested. We had to subpoena many records and hire a forensic accountant to find assets; to this day, I'm still sure we missed some. We had opportunities to settle along the way, but his position until the bitter end was that everything but my work 401k belonged to him. I know I had a great attorney because I had a good network sending me referrals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to trial in a divorce is so incredibly financially dumb. Unless he is worth millions and you stand to lose millions. Otherwise, settle and be done.

I had to go to trial because my ex was hiding significant assets and refused to reach a settlement approaching an even split. My very good lawyer gave mediation for a couple of hours, then told me to be done and go to court. The whole thing was insanely expensive, but unavoidable under the circumstances, and we did have millions. Instead of forcing a sale of everything, the judge agreed with a proposal from my lawyer to split assets.

Not to be a bit?h but everyone wants to think their lawyer is ‘the best’ but frankly one mediation session is ridiculous and no reason to go to trial other than he made tens of thousands of dollars off you instead of five figures.

- signed lawyer

NP. Is there a way to keep the divorce down to five figures with a highly contentious STBX who will not see reason and ask for things that are flat out not safe for kids?

Yes but it will take strategy. First, go to mediation but always let hint you’re open to trial if need be. If you’re the less moneyed spouse you could get legal fees btw. Do your math though and ensure you’re not asking for anything beyond the statutory amounts for child support, maintenance, distribution which in many jurisdictions are a fairly clear calculation (google it and talk to your lawyer). Educate yourself on this stuff because it’s often less opaque as you might think. Lots of people divorce without lawyers.

As far as the kids, play it cool and even consider using reverse psychology w your ex. Men will often use a mom’s sensitivity about the kids to beat her into a less than fair settlement. Don’t let him. And check your anxiety about your kids. I know it’s hard. But don’t be overly anxious. When you say ‘safety’, I want you to really consider if it’s a true safety issue for them. If it’s not, let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to trial in a divorce is so incredibly financially dumb. Unless he is worth millions and you stand to lose millions. Otherwise, settle and be done.

I had to go to trial because my ex was hiding significant assets and refused to reach a settlement approaching an even split. My very good lawyer gave mediation for a couple of hours, then told me to be done and go to court. The whole thing was insanely expensive, but unavoidable under the circumstances, and we did have millions. Instead of forcing a sale of everything, the judge agreed with a proposal from my lawyer to split assets.

Not to be a bit?h but everyone wants to think their lawyer is ‘the best’ but frankly one mediation session is ridiculous and no reason to go to trial other than he made tens of thousands of dollars off you instead of five figures.

- signed lawyer

I hear you, and I'm the PP and also a lawyer (but not a litigator). Mediation was never going to work. He hired a terrible, cheap attorney and didn't provide anything we requested. We had to subpoena many records and hire a forensic accountant to find assets; to this day, I'm still sure we missed some. We had opportunities to settle along the way, but his position until the bitter end was that everything but my work 401k belonged to him. I know I had a great attorney because I had a good network sending me referrals.

Pp got it, makes sense. Sorry, I’m a little defensive about our peers in this area. A lot of bad apples or even just mediocre apples who encourage expensive divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I don’t actually have a cat. And if I DID have a cat, the cat would not get pedicures. Just trying to throw out a hypothetical and also avoid identifying myself too much because this IS pretty specific.

My more general question is how detailed judgments are in a trial. Like is the outcome going to be - sell everything and split it down the middle, or is going to be more nuanced like: Larla takes the house in the vineyard as part of her half and Larlo gets the Château in France and the vintage car collection.

I will definitely be asking my lawyer more questions, but since he’s about $700 an hour and you guys are free, I figured it would be helpful to see what other people have experienced. My lawyer seems very eager to go to trial, so I’m not sure I’m getting the best answers about the details. In all fairness to my lawyer, his goal is to get me the max possible, not to worry about the details like cat pedicures or who gets the 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder.

Yes, we're free, boo, but you aren't giving us much to go on whereas your lawyer has all that info.

You say you have a "specific list" of things and that makes me think you may be part of the problem. At the end of the day, you're not going to get everything on that "specific list" so you probably need to take realistic stock of that and decided what's really important and what isn't.

[Anonymous]

My divorce may go to trial because stbx will not negotiate and he has insisted on litigating. Was in court for another hearing this week and the judge chose a trial date in November. I have been asking to settle for months and he refuses. It's a sick game for him but since I am the defendant I don't have a choice except to show up in court again. After yesterday's hearing the judge is now deciding spousal support. My ex is way more invested in maintaining control over me any way he can than making sound financial decisions. There just isn't enough to fight over to warrant this ongoing legal battle and there are no children involved.

Why don't you try collaborative divorce instead of regular mediation? Both parties agree not to litigate, and both attorneys must be trained in the collaborative process. It's so much less expensive than litigation. My stbx refused this option as well so here I am. You do not want to voluntarily engage in litigation.

[Anonymous]

OP here - my ‘specific list’ is actually ways in which he can pay what he owes me with real estate or other things that don’t require us to sell assets. There is also a kid with special needs involved, so that’s a little more complex than is typical as well. I’m really trying to figure out how much court is going to just say sell everything and split it versus help distribute assets in a way that is fair without selling them…

I don’t think you can do a collaborative divorce without someone who is willing to collaborate…
We are going to try mediation, that also seems to be difficult with someone who is not attached to reality.

My situation is much like the PP whose husband thought he was entitled to everything but the 401(k). There is a huge gap between what he thinks I should get and what would be in compliance with state law.