Help me get along with Sales

[Anonymous]

I'm in an engineering firm and all the engineers dislike the lawyers and contracts. They prevent us from doing all the things we want to do. For good reason. To protect the company and the contracts and make sure we don't give away everything to a customer we like to work with.
It has to come from the top and the sales ppl need to be reminded that while they do bring in the $ the contracts and lawyers protect them, the company and ultimately the $ and their ability to make more $. So details do matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sales rep here (different industry) and I’m curious what values are different? Also curious what you don’t like about working with reps as I’m wondering what my cross functional colleagues think of us!

Sales:

1) Are only about the $$
2) Are big picture, don't understand why the details have to be right
3) Don't plan ahead so routine work becomes an emergency
4) has no idea of turnaround time
5) Dip in and dip out of the office all day long, and are frustrated when contracts isn't available in the evenings after contracts has worked 9 hours at their desks

Np. In house too.

Ha I always laugh at the sales reps attitude. They’d slit their grandmas throat to get a sales in by quarter end.

I agree with the above.

Don’t sweat the details with them.
Don’t over lawyer.
Be patient. They sort of pay for your job and they have a lot more pressure than we do in many ways.
Prioritize their work (see above)

I never understand how this is perception. They are just part of a chain of providing a product or service to market — they are just the last link so somehow are considered pivotal.

[Anonymous]

Your job is to be the adult, but you aren't in charge.

You are counsel. State facts, give opinions, draft legal contracts that serve the company's interests, and stand behind your work even if sales gets upset, while wishing them the best in their efforts to bring in money to pay your salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your job is to be the adult, but you aren't in charge.

You are counsel. State facts, give opinions, draft legal contracts that serve the company's interests, and stand behind your work even if sales gets upset, whilet wishing them the best in their efforts to bring in money to pay your salary.

Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Ridiculous how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous how?

They aren’t bringing in the money; the customer is exchanging money for the goods and services provided by the whole company. Wish them well, sure, but they aren’t responsible for PP salary.

[Anonymous]

Sales side here (now director of sales) what are the specific issues you have?

If it is the trying to get sales in before end of quarter, that is a management thing not a sales person thing. I don't allow that to happen at the company I work for. I don't care if you get the sale in the last day of one quarter or the first day of the next quarter. In the grand scheme of business and life, it makes zero difference.

[Anonymous]

PP, OP here. You've highlighted one of the issues I raised - did you read the list of grievances earlier in the thread, or just the headline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sales side here (now director of sales) what are the specific issues you have?

If it is the trying to get sales in before end of quarter, that is a management thing not a sales person thing. I don't allow that to happen at the company I work for. I don't care if you get the sale in the last day of one quarter or the first day of the next quarter. In the grand scheme of business and life, it makes zero difference.

From earlier in the thread

Sales:

1) Are only about the $$
2) Are big picture, don't understand why the details have to be right
3) Don't plan ahead so routine work becomes an emergency
4) has no idea of turnaround time
5) Dip in and dip out of the office all day long, and are frustrated when contracts isn't available in the evenings after contracts has worked 9 hours at their desks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sales side here (now director of sales) what are the specific issues you have?

If it is the trying to get sales in before end of quarter, that is a management thing not a sales person thing. I don't allow that to happen at the company I work for. I don't care if you get the sale in the last day of one quarter or the first day of the next quarter. In the grand scheme of business and life, it makes zero difference.

From earlier in the thread

Sales:

1) Are only about the $$
2) Are big picture, don't understand why the details have to be right
3) Don't plan ahead so routine work becomes an emergency
4) has no idea of turnaround time
5) Dip in and dip out of the office all day long, and are frustrated when contracts isn't available in the evenings after contracts has worked 9 hours at their desks

You don’t understand. They believe they are why you are paid at all. So of course you should jump at their demands, otherwise you won’t get paid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sales side here (now director of sales) what are the specific issues you have?

If it is the trying to get sales in before end of quarter, that is a management thing not a sales person thing. I don't allow that to happen at the company I work for. I don't care if you get the sale in the last day of one quarter or the first day of the next quarter. In the grand scheme of business and life, it makes zero difference.

From earlier in the thread

Sales:

1) Are only about the $$
2) Are big picture, don't understand why the details have to be right
3) Don't plan ahead so routine work becomes an emergency
4) has no idea of turnaround time
5) Dip in and dip out of the office all day long, and are frustrated when contracts isn't available in the evenings after contracts has worked 9 hours at their desks

PP you replied to here.
1) At the end of the day, The $$ is literally the only thing they are judged on. Just like you are judged on accuracy and risk mitigation.

2) See response above. Add that the $$ from one sale is not what they are judged on, it is the totality. And by the time a deal is on your desk they need to be working on the next 1,10 or 20 deals.

3) They have ADD, which is what makes them good at their job. Just like you are dealing with their emergency, they are dealing with a constant bombardment of demands from dozens of customers. Which in the customers eyes are all emergencies. You are both in the same boat. In sales S doesn't roll down hill, it rolls uphill from the customer to the sales person, to you or whoever the last stop before the deal is signed.

4) Do you have a directive on this? Are there sales mangers? If there are sales managers, all deal correspondence between sales and legal should go through them, even if that just means being CC'd. Have a rule that they can not reach out about a status until X number of business hours or days. If it is a true rush case, then that correspondence should only be between you and sales manger starting with the request for a rush, with sales person completely removed from the situation until the SM puts in back on their desk. And the rush process should have it's own parameters. The SM should be required to tell you which 2 or 3 jobs they would like you to push back to handle the rush request. And the sales manger should be required to inform the sales person on those delayed deals of the new schedule and cc you on it.

5) Who cares where they are? The only metric that matters is $$. It doesn't matter where they are when they obtain those dollars. It is a cut and dry performance metric, not much ambiguity. You being at your desk is part of your job, you knew that when you took the job. Them being in the office or out of the office does not impact your ability to you job at all. The contract being ready issue can be solved by my above suggestions.

A lot of this sounds like a lack of clear standards and processes, which is a management issue. Strife between two divisions is typically the direct result of poor management and/or corporate oversight, not the "opposing" division. Both divisions are probably working within established rules or what their superiors are instructing them to do. That is a gap corporate should be bridging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sales side here (now director of sales) what are the specific issues you have?

If it is the trying to get sales in before end of quarter, that is a management thing not a sales person thing. I don't allow that to happen at the company I work for. I don't care if you get the sale in the last day of one quarter or the first day of the next quarter. In the grand scheme of business and life, it makes zero difference.

From earlier in the thread

Sales:

1) Are only about the $$
2) Are big picture, don't understand why the details have to be right
3) Don't plan ahead so routine work becomes an emergency
4) has no idea of turnaround time
5) Dip in and dip out of the office all day long, and are frustrated when contracts isn't available in the evenings after contracts has worked 9 hours at their desks

This is hilarious and accurate.

In all seriousness, legal and sales get different messages about risk from leadership.

Sales goal is to close the deal no matter what. Risk is rewarded.

Legal goal is to reduce risk at all cost. Risk aversion is valued.

Two teams with opposite objectives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sales side here (now director of sales) what are the specific issues you have?

If it is the trying to get sales in before end of quarter, that is a management thing not a sales person thing. I don't allow that to happen at the company I work for. I don't care if you get the sale in the last day of one quarter or the first day of the next quarter. In the grand scheme of business and life, it makes zero difference.

From earlier in the thread

Sales:

1) Are only about the $$
2) Are big picture, don't understand why the details have to be right
3) Don't plan ahead so routine work becomes an emergency
4) has no idea of turnaround time
5) Dip in and dip out of the office all day long, and are frustrated when contracts isn't available in the evenings after contracts has worked 9 hours at their desks

This is hilarious and accurate.

In all seriousness, legal and sales get different messages about risk from leadership.

Sales goal is to close the deal no matter what. Risk is rewarded.

Legal goal is to reduce risk at all cost. Risk aversion is valued.

Two teams with opposite objectives.

And understand that leadership has a bias towards sales. First because its a positive for company... generally.. because risks sometimes dont materialize into real issues.

Second, more executives tend to originate in the revenue generating side of the business, so they are "their people".

[Anonymous]

I am sales and have always worked really well with my legal teams. But yeah, sometimes they want to take exception to everything in a contract and we know it’ll kill the deal. In those cases we have to both roll up our sleeves and get somewhere reasonable. I don’t think we could do that if my legal team didn’t fundamentally respect that my job is valid.

If you feel you are getting last minute requests and not being given timely requests, then that’s a management/process issue needing to be addressed and it is not about sales. It is about a sloppy work culture and/or inadequate staffing.