Tylenol Murders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

Yes, agree. The person above who hasn’t heard of the case must be younger. I remember is clearly even as a 7 year old. It was very big news.

I believe In n Out burger similarly did a lot of quality control and their image actually improved after people died of bad meat in the 80s.

[Anonymous]

So I will give some spoilers. It seems very obvious it was the company - the company used cyanide in quality testing to make sure there was no lead in the product so there was cyanide being tested on Tylenol capsules very nearby where the regular capsules were being packaged, and apparently the cyanide was not locked away or separated at all.

Here’s the thing. In 1982 it was very easy to tamper with packaging. But by 1986 more cyanide was found in Tylenol pills and it was absolutely improbable that someone off the street came and tampered it. The outside cardboard packages were glued, which you could probably get through, but then they have these really red thick plastic packaging over The bottle with distinct print, it would be impossible for a person off the street to re-create that exact packaging. Once you get through that packaging, then there was a foil strip when you remove the cap - again impossible to go through all of those layers and keep the packaging intact.

How do you explain more cyanide deaths after those packaging changes? People also think it is quite likely there were a lot more deaths than reported, as they don’t regularly test for cyanide poisoning, and if elderly people had taken it, they would’ve just blamed their death on heart failure or whatever. The only reason these cyanide deaths were flagged because it was all young healthy people who died so they probed for signs of poisoning.

I just don’t see how you can come away from the documentary thinking it wasn’t J&J. Obviously they didn’t do it intentionally but they screwed up in quality control.

Finally, outside of a distribution plant there were tons of Tylenol capsules crushed, and a policeman went to pick them up and got cyanide poisoning. How do you explain that? Someone saw that Tylenol meant for public consumption was being mixed with the Tylenol that was being test tested for lead and tried to trash it.

The company was largely left to investigate itself and said there was nothing to see her and destroyed millions and millions of Tylenol capsules. They obviously knew if an outsider had tested they would find a lot more capsules with cyanide in it. I cannot believe they kept up this for years. I thought it was some maniac running around the streets of Chicago, but that clearly was not the case. I’m really glad the documentary has aired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. It's on Netflix. I literally just turned it on. I have never heard this story, but Netflix describes it as a poisoning spree with laced Tylenol from the 80s. And several people died and the case is unsolved.

Really? This is why we have sealed medicine at the drugstore--foil wrappers, plastic, etc. We didn't have that before the murders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

I had this case study in business school, but after watching the show, I wonder how much was a cover-up by the parent company. I know I know conspiracy mindset. It was much easier to hide things back then but also thank goodness that it led to tamperproof packaging. Absolutely insane to think bottles just sat on a shelf and could be opened by anyone.

[Anonymous]

But by 1986 more cyanide was found in Tylenol pills and it was absolutely improbable that someone off the street came and tampered it.

I’m another one who was 10 in 1982 and I absolutely remember how scary the initial scandal was - but I had no idea that the subsequent poisonings in 1986 even happened.

DOJ allowing J&J to do all of the product testing and destruction is mind boggling but not sure how the Feds could have effectuated all of that work.

[Anonymous]

After watching, I believe it was either an inside job by someone at J&J or a total accident that the cyanide made its way into the pills inadvertently during manufacturing.

There was literally no other way the 1986 poisoning could have happened since that was after the safety seals were introduced.

Manufacturing work in the 80s was still pretty lax. I have photos of my dad and uncle working in the same manufacturing plant in the 80s where they are smoking while on the assembly line. I mean, they got limited to 1 beer during lunch through the week and 2 during lunch on Friday or else the line would get the "Friday Flops" where too many assembled parts came off the line incorrectly because of too much lunchtime drinking. It's not at all crazy to think that some cyanide accidentally made its way into the final product.

John Lewis is creepy af, but not guilty of this crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

Yes, agree. The person above who hasn’t heard of the case must be younger. I remember is clearly even as a 7 year old. It was very big news.

I believe In n Out burger similarly did a lot of quality control and their image actually improved after people died of bad meat in the 80s.

I still won’t eat at a Jack in the Box or buy meat from Food Lion. Nope!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

Yes, agree. The person above who hasn’t heard of the case must be younger. I remember is clearly even as a 7 year old. It was very big news.

I believe In n Out burger similarly did a lot of quality control and their image actually improved after people died of bad meat in the 80s.

I still won’t eat at a Jack in the Box or buy meat from Food Lion. Nope!!

Oops! I did mean Jack in the Box. I don’t trust Food Lion either. I forgot about that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

Yes, agree. The person above who hasn’t heard of the case must be younger. I remember is clearly even as a 7 year old. It was very big news.

I believe In n Out burger similarly did a lot of quality control and their image actually improved after people died of bad meat in the 80s.

I still won’t eat at a Jack in the Box or buy meat from Food Lion. Nope!!

Haha me too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I will give some spoilers. It seems very obvious it was the company - the company used cyanide in quality testing to make sure there was no lead in the product so there was cyanide being tested on Tylenol capsules very nearby where the regular capsules were being packaged, and apparently the cyanide was not locked away or separated at all.

Here’s the thing. In 1982 it was very easy to tamper with packaging. But by 1986 more cyanide was found in Tylenol pills and it was absolutely improbable that someone off the street came and tampered it. The outside cardboard packages were glued, which you could probably get through, but then they have these really red thick plastic packaging over The bottle with distinct print, it would be impossible for a person off the street to re-create that exact packaging. Once you get through that packaging, then there was a foil strip when you remove the cap - again impossible to go through all of those layers and keep the packaging intact.

How do you explain more cyanide deaths after those packaging changes? People also think it is quite likely there were a lot more deaths than reported, as they don’t regularly test for cyanide poisoning, and if elderly people had taken it, they would’ve just blamed their death on heart failure or whatever. The only reason these cyanide deaths were flagged because it was all young healthy people who died so they probed for signs of poisoning.

I just don’t see how you can come away from the documentary thinking it wasn’t J&J. Obviously they didn’t do it intentionally but they screwed up in quality control.

Finally, outside of a distribution plant there were tons of Tylenol capsules crushed, and a policeman went to pick them up and got cyanide poisoning. How do you explain that? Someone saw that Tylenol meant for public consumption was being mixed with the Tylenol that was being test tested for lead and tried to trash it.

The company was largely left to investigate itself and said there was nothing to see her and destroyed millions and millions of Tylenol capsules. They obviously knew if an outsider had tested they would find a lot more capsules with cyanide in it. I cannot believe they kept up this for years. I thought it was some maniac running around the streets of Chicago, but that clearly was not the case. I’m really glad the documentary has aired.

I believe this too. And I think John Lewis was just a criminal weirdo who capitalized on the news to try to make a buck. The fact he hated J&J probably gave him more motivation to extort them. Based on how poorly he committed his crimes I have a hard time believing he pulled off pill tampering. Although it was weird he was at the store when one of the women who died purchased a bottle. But if they were in lots of bottles around town that could be coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There was literally no other way the 1986 poisoning could have happened since that was after the safety seals were introduced.

Wrong. Safety seals were introduced because of this case. And it was 1982, not 1986.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There was literally no other way the 1986 poisoning could have happened since that was after the safety seals were introduced.

Wrong. Safety seals were introduced because of this case. And it was 1982, not 1986.

DP - you are incorrect and/or confused.... the initial poisonings were in 1982. There was another incident in 1986 AFTER the seals had already been introduced. This PP is saying that the 1986 poisoning couldn't have happened the same way (by some psycho) b//c the safety seals were ALREADY introduced after the 1982 initial deaths.

[Anonymous]

It seems possible that other people died of poisoning but the possibility was never investigated because it was so unlikely. That's about all I came away with from the show. Not sure of anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I will give some spoilers. It seems very obvious it was the company - the company used cyanide in quality testing to make sure there was no lead in the product so there was cyanide being tested on Tylenol capsules very nearby where the regular capsules were being packaged, and apparently the cyanide was not locked away or separated at all.

Here’s the thing. In 1982 it was very easy to tamper with packaging. But by 1986 more cyanide was found in Tylenol pills and it was absolutely improbable that someone off the street came and tampered it. The outside cardboard packages were glued, which you could probably get through, but then they have these really red thick plastic packaging over The bottle with distinct print, it would be impossible for a person off the street to re-create that exact packaging. Once you get through that packaging, then there was a foil strip when you remove the cap - again impossible to go through all of those layers and keep the packaging intact.

How do you explain more cyanide deaths after those packaging changes? People also think it is quite likely there were a lot more deaths than reported, as they don’t regularly test for cyanide poisoning, and if elderly people had taken it, they would’ve just blamed their death on heart failure or whatever. The only reason these cyanide deaths were flagged because it was all young healthy people who died so they probed for signs of poisoning.

I just don’t see how you can come away from the documentary thinking it wasn’t J&J. Obviously they didn’t do it intentionally but they screwed up in quality control.

Finally, outside of a distribution plant there were tons of Tylenol capsules crushed, and a policeman went to pick them up and got cyanide poisoning. How do you explain that? Someone saw that Tylenol meant for public consumption was being mixed with the Tylenol that was being test tested for lead and tried to trash it.

The company was largely left to investigate itself and said there was nothing to see her and destroyed millions and millions of Tylenol capsules. They obviously knew if an outsider had tested they would find a lot more capsules with cyanide in it. I cannot believe they kept up this for years. I thought it was some maniac running around the streets of Chicago, but that clearly was not the case. I’m really glad the documentary has aired.

I believe this too. And I think John Lewis was just a criminal weirdo who capitalized on the news to try to make a buck. The fact he hated J&J probably gave him more motivation to extort them. Based on how poorly he committed his crimes I have a hard time believing he pulled off pill tampering. Although it was weird he was at the store when one of the women who died purchased a bottle. But if they were in lots of bottles around town that could be coincidence.

I think the guy in the store video just looked like him and wasn’t actually him. But I totally believe he murdered the old guy and raped his neighbor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems possible that other people died of poisoning but the possibility was never investigated because it was so unlikely. That's about all I came away with from the show. Not sure of anything else.

Doesn’t anyone who dies of cyanide poisoning have that foaming at the mouth thing, though?