Tylenol Murders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems possible that other people died of poisoning but the possibility was never investigated because it was so unlikely. That's about all I came away with from the show. Not sure of anything else.

Doesn’t anyone who dies of cyanide poisoning have that foaming at the mouth thing, though?

That's also the case of a seizure though, and other issues. Its not just cyanide poisoning and that is so rare that they don't test for it standardly. The only reason they tested in this case is because 3 family members all dropped dead the same day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I will give some spoilers. It seems very obvious it was the company - the company used cyanide in quality testing to make sure there was no lead in the product so there was cyanide being tested on Tylenol capsules very nearby where the regular capsules were being packaged, and apparently the cyanide was not locked away or separated at all.

Here’s the thing. In 1982 it was very easy to tamper with packaging. But by 1986 more cyanide was found in Tylenol pills and it was absolutely improbable that someone off the street came and tampered it. The outside cardboard packages were glued, which you could probably get through, but then they have these really red thick plastic packaging over The bottle with distinct print, it would be impossible for a person off the street to re-create that exact packaging. Once you get through that packaging, then there was a foil strip when you remove the cap - again impossible to go through all of those layers and keep the packaging intact.

How do you explain more cyanide deaths after those packaging changes? People also think it is quite likely there were a lot more deaths than reported, as they don’t regularly test for cyanide poisoning, and if elderly people had taken it, they would’ve just blamed their death on heart failure or whatever. The only reason these cyanide deaths were flagged because it was all young healthy people who died so they probed for signs of poisoning.

I just don’t see how you can come away from the documentary thinking it wasn’t J&J. Obviously they didn’t do it intentionally but they screwed up in quality control.

Finally, outside of a distribution plant there were tons of Tylenol capsules crushed, and a policeman went to pick them up and got cyanide poisoning. How do you explain that? Someone saw that Tylenol meant for public consumption was being mixed with the Tylenol that was being test tested for lead and tried to trash it.

The company was largely left to investigate itself and said there was nothing to see her and destroyed millions and millions of Tylenol capsules. They obviously knew if an outsider had tested they would find a lot more capsules with cyanide in it. I cannot believe they kept up this for years. I thought it was some maniac running around the streets of Chicago, but that clearly was not the case. I’m really glad the documentary has aired.

I didn't think the Netflix doc handled that part well. I was confused if they were insinuating that someone stole them or if it was someone who works there.

[Anonymous]

Lewis later moved to MA and was accused of raping his neighbor. He's a creep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lewis later moved to MA and was accused of raping his neighbor. He's a creep.

Yes and he was only let go b/c she was too emotional to testify in court!

She had burns around her mouth that they said seemed like a type of poison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There was literally no other way the 1986 poisoning could have happened since that was after the safety seals were introduced.

Wrong. Safety seals were introduced because of this case. And it was 1982, not 1986.

No, the first wave of poisoning happened in 1982. They then completely changed the packaging and gave three layers of protection, impossible to tamper with, and there were more deaths in 1986.

That is why it is clearly the company manufacturing process.

[Anonymous]

Please post complete thoughts and sentences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lewis later moved to MA and was accused of raping his neighbor. He's a creep.

There’s no question he was an insane creep. I think it was just a totally different time and people got away with so much. I just watched two different true crime movies taking place in the 70s and early 80s, where white college educated men basically just got away with raping multiple times, the police knew they had done it, continually let them go. We just had more trouble proving things and just were just much more lax about white guys walking around doing insane things back then.

That said, it’s impossible that John Lewis could have tampered with the well sealed packages in 1986. It just seems so clear that it’s quality control issues at the company. They literally test some Tylenol capsules with cyanide to test for the presence of lead. Those capsules should not be put in boxes consumed by the public. Clearly as someone else pointed out factory lines and manufacturing plants were completely different back then and manufacturing processes were a lot more lax, and it could easily have happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I will give some spoilers. It seems very obvious it was the company - the company used cyanide in quality testing to make sure there was no lead in the product so there was cyanide being tested on Tylenol capsules very nearby where the regular capsules were being packaged, and apparently the cyanide was not locked away or separated at all.

Here’s the thing. In 1982 it was very easy to tamper with packaging. But by 1986 more cyanide was found in Tylenol pills and it was absolutely improbable that someone off the street came and tampered it. The outside cardboard packages were glued, which you could probably get through, but then they have these really red thick plastic packaging over The bottle with distinct print, it would be impossible for a person off the street to re-create that exact packaging. Once you get through that packaging, then there was a foil strip when you remove the cap - again impossible to go through all of those layers and keep the packaging intact.

How do you explain more cyanide deaths after those packaging changes? People also think it is quite likely there were a lot more deaths than reported, as they don’t regularly test for cyanide poisoning, and if elderly people had taken it, they would’ve just blamed their death on heart failure or whatever. The only reason these cyanide deaths were flagged because it was all young healthy people who died so they probed for signs of poisoning.

I just don’t see how you can come away from the documentary thinking it wasn’t J&J. Obviously they didn’t do it intentionally but they screwed up in quality control.

Finally, outside of a distribution plant there were tons of Tylenol capsules crushed, and a policeman went to pick them up and got cyanide poisoning. How do you explain that? Someone saw that Tylenol meant for public consumption was being mixed with the Tylenol that was being test tested for lead and tried to trash it.

The company was largely left to investigate itself and said there was nothing to see her and destroyed millions and millions of Tylenol capsules. They obviously knew if an outsider had tested they would find a lot more capsules with cyanide in it. I cannot believe they kept up this for years. I thought it was some maniac running around the streets of Chicago, but that clearly was not the case. I’m really glad the documentary has aired.

I didn't think the Netflix doc handled that part well. I was confused if they were insinuating that someone stole them or if it was someone who works there.

They definitely did not handle that part well. It could’ve been more clear, but it’s my understanding that it was near a manufacturing plant. I am betting due to lax manufacturing processes somebody saw that there were contaminated capsules and just dumped them. I don’t think anyone from the plant was actively trying to poison consumers. I just think the quality control sucked.

[Anonymous]

That said, it’s impossible that John Lewis could have tampered with the well sealed packages in 1986.

Right - he was in prison for writing the blackmail letter at the time, yes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

+1 I remember it really impacted Halloween; my mom cut open all of my candy before allowing me to eat only a few pieces. And we really didn’t trick-or-treat again. I think it’s why medicine bottles are now child-proof, yes? I still prefer tablets to capsules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to weigh in as a person who was 10 years old when the Tylenol poisoning case unfolded and whose family medicine cabinet always had a bottle in it. It was VERY scary for regular Americans, and I think Tylenol did an excellent job handling the PR because they a well respected and successful brand more than 40 years later and obviously many folks who are much younger have never even heard of the case. I guess I'm not surprised it is taught as a case study in business schools.

+1 I remember it really impacted Halloween; my mom cut open all of my candy before allowing me to eat only a few pieces. And we really didn’t trick-or-treat again. I think it’s why medicine bottles are now child-proof, yes? I still prefer tablets to capsules.

It’s also around the same time when some family claimed there were drugs laced on a sticker they received from a random house on Halloween. For some reason, the kid put the sticker on their hand and had some kind of reaction. So I remember there was a whole anti-sticker Halloween situation Along with searching the candy for contamination.

[Anonymous]

I was watching distractedly but can anyone explain:

1. The one suspect that was actually a driver for the Jewel grocery store?

2. The post stamp on the Lewis letter and him saying he wrote it 2 days before? I thought they implied that he knew about the murders beforehand but I think it was more to show he was actually confused, is that correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was watching distractedly but can anyone explain:

1. The one suspect that was actually a driver for the Jewel grocery store?

2. The post stamp on the Lewis letter and him saying he wrote it 2 days before? I thought they implied that he knew about the murders beforehand but I think it was more to show he was actually confused, is that correct?

This documentary was actually really poorly done though I did enjoy it. This was confusing and overblown. But yes, he postmarked the letter on October 1 which was two days after the reports of the first murder. So he absolutely could have written the letter and mailed it after hearing about it on the news. The problem was he had told police He worked on the letter for three days. Which would imply he started the day before the murders hit the news.

The police acted like that was a big gotcha. But this was an interview done years later and I just don’t believe it was the gotcha they thought it was. It’d be one thing if it was postmarked before the death became public, but it was postmarked two days after.

Anyway, I think the documentary sacrificed clearly explaining the facts because they wanted to keep throwing curveballs at us. But it blurred the facts. I just don’t see how you could watch this and not see that it was a quality control issue in the plant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That said, it’s impossible that John Lewis could have tampered with the well sealed packages in 1986.

Right - he was in prison for writing the blackmail letter at the time, yes?

Not only that, but no human could have walked into a store, unwrapped packaging without breaking it, re-created the exact color red and material of the packaging that went over the bottle and re-created the white print labeling on the tamper proof plastic. Not to mention refoil the bottle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. It's on Netflix. I literally just turned it on. I have never heard this story, but Netflix describes it as a poisoning spree with laced Tylenol from the 80s. And several people died and the case is unsolved.

How have you not heard of the tylenol murders? Are you very young?