There is favoritism in swimming

[Anonymous]

We were with a small club team for years with a coach who had clear favorites and seemed to lack self awareness about how his behavior affected other swimmers. The team has gotten worse and worse over the years with older kids getting fed up and leaving for other teams. It really is a problem with the coach sometimes.

It affected my son only in the way that with so many of other swimmers leaving, the practice groups were slower and he did not have other fast swimmers to swim with. He is still fast though not as fast as he would be if he had a faster practice group. So coach behavior did affect his times that way.

[Anonymous]

Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

[Anonymous]

Not every kid who misbehaves is neurodivergent, and being neurodivergent doesn't provide a carte blanche to misbehave. Free will is a thing that exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

[Anonymous]

You can’t coach 18 kids at a time and offer the same amount of specialization to each kid that you seem to expect. It would be more reasonable to figure out how to get your kid to fall in line or find a smaller group for lessons/ training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can’t coach 18 kids at a time and offer the same amount of specialization to each kid that you seem to expect. It would be more reasonable to figure out how to get your kid to fall in line or find a smaller group for lessons/ training.

Who is expecting what?

[Anonymous]

Seriously, you just happened to wonder if swimming was based on nature or nurture and tied it to a coach riding in a plane. Enough already. Can we please just let these threads die.

[Anonymous]

There is subjective favoritism in every aspect of life. You felt driven to post because...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

Most of coaches are broke and trying to deal with dozens of kids and their uptight moms at the same time. If anything, we should expect better from the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Read this from the perspective of a parent who does not have a child with neurodivergencies, but who is an empathetic professional that works with children who have many neurodivergencies. I shudder at the comments from the swim instructors (or those speaking on their behalf) replying in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

Most of coaches are broke and trying to deal with dozens of kids and their uptight moms at the same time. If anything, we should expect better from the parents.

Both can be true at the same time. Yes, we all have an opportunity to be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People become favorites because they are fast, they are not fast because they are favorites. If your swimmer is mediocre all the attention in the world isn’t going to change that. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

Op here. My post was inspired so to speak from the coach in a private plane thread.

People there were saying that the times speak for themselves and favoritism can’t happen in swimming.

A coach can totally discourage a child in every sport, including swimming, and make them hate it. A coach could also favor certain children, treat them better and design practices to suit those kids and their needs moreso than others.

A swimmer doesn’t become a favorite because they’re fast. However, even if that’s the reason, it’s still unfair and unethical to all the other kids in the team.

You must be the owner of said private jet.

I have no affiliation with York or that coach, but I do know that he lives rent free in some heads here in DCUM land since you have created yet another thread about it. A coach can definitely discourage a swimmer, generally though it’s the kid that spends most of their time in the bathroom to skip sets, talks when the coach is explaining the set or is otherwise not engaged and paying attention. The attentive kids and the ones who act like they want to be there get positive reinforcement. But in terms of truly being a coach’s favorite, come on, like in any sport it’s usually the kids that perform the best. Coaches may have a soft spot for the kid that is earnest, loves the sport and tries hard even if they will never be elite, but I don’t know that you can call that favoritism. This is how life works, not just sports.

Agree. For most coaches / good coaches.

DD did have one summer swim coach who had really blatant favorites though (and she was a fast one for her age group and is always an earnest beaver kind of kid with practices). If you weren’t a fav you could definitely tell. She switched teams after a couple years because it was just so frustrating a dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

Most of coaches are broke and trying to deal with dozens of kids and their uptight moms at the same time. If anything, we should expect better from the parents.

So coaches that are broke get card blanche to be crappy humans?