There is favoritism in swimming

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

[Anonymous]

It's pretty simple, teach your kid not to be a little $hit and they too can become a favorite.

[Anonymous]

I have been annoyed for a couple years now with our head coach and his favorites. Although it's less like a handful of favorites and more like 90% of the time he only talks to/coaches the kids that also swim for his club team (that or flirt with the lifeguards or assistant coaches). He doesn't know the names of a lot of the younger kids and doesn't do much to encourage them, much less coach them. Thankfully my kids have friends on the team and like the assistant coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been annoyed for a couple years now with our head coach and his favorites. Although it's less like a handful of favorites and more like 90% of the time he only talks to/coaches the kids that also swim for his club team (that or flirt with the lifeguards or assistant coaches). He doesn't know the names of a lot of the younger kids and doesn't do much to encourage them, much less coach them. Thankfully my kids have friends on the team and like the assistant coaches.

Unfortunately the bolded is very common. However, there's no solution for this other than to switch summer pools. Club coaches are hard to land for summer teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People become favorites because they are fast, they are not fast because they are favorites. If your swimmer is mediocre all the attention in the world isn’t going to change that. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

not the OP but I disagree we have expereinced really good coaches and they may have a favorite for speed but they give all swimmers attention and work with them to improve. That is what it means to be a coach. Sorry to burst your bubble. We had a coach that outwardly hated many swimmers on the team-all she did was yell and belittle~ it was a miserable experience for all involved. Don't coach if you can't work with different level and different kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty simple, teach your kid not to be a little $hit and they too can become a favorite.

Said the biggest pile of all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

You don’t always know your kid is ND.

You also don’t need to have a reason to act humanely with people.

The protection for disabilities is there because people are naturally not kind, so we force them to not push the envelope for disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

You don’t always know your kid is ND.

You also don’t need to have a reason to act humanely with people.

The protection for disabilities is there because people are naturally not kind, so we force them to not push the envelope for disabilities.

So if you don’t know your own kid is ND, how is it that a coach that has 15-20 other kids in the group for an hour a day a few times a week is supposed to pick up on that and adjust his approach to your kid accordingly? 🙄 Not every kid that acts out at a practice is ND and needs to be treated with kid gloves. Sometimes a kid is just a PITA and should be dealt with as such. Coaches are not getting paid near enough to deal with these ridiculous expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

You don’t always know your kid is ND.

You also don’t need to have a reason to act humanely with people.

The protection for disabilities is there because people are naturally not kind, so we force them to not push the envelope for disabilities.

So if you don’t know your own kid is ND, how is it that a coach that has 15-20 other kids in the group for an hour a day a few times a week is supposed to pick up on that and adjust his approach to your kid accordingly? 🙄 Not every kid that acts out at a practice is ND and needs to be treated with kid gloves. Sometimes a kid is just a PITA and should be dealt with as such. Coaches are not getting paid near enough to deal with these ridiculous expectations.

We found the abusive coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

Parent of a hard of hearing kid here. Yeah, I always talk to coaches to explain that they will not hear as well and that they have to closer (not just louder) and check for understanding. Swimming adds an extra challenge because hearing aids can't be worn in the water. Because the disability is no longer visible, I think the coaches sometimes forget that my kid can't hear what they are saying sometimes. Even with the hearing aids on in other settings, it's hard to get people to understand that they are not a magic fix. I am trying to teach my child to advocate for themselves but it's a work in progress.

I feel for parents whose kids are neurodivergent. Not only is their disability invisible, it's not as straightforward as just asking a coach to get closer or repeat instructions. It's usually a lot more work to accommodate them. Coaches do not generally have training in working with kids with disabilities unless they happen to be a teacher. I don't think you can hold them to quite the same standard. Even if you think they "should" be able to work with all kids, it's not reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

You don’t always know your kid is ND.

You also don’t need to have a reason to act humanely with people.

The protection for disabilities is there because people are naturally not kind, so we force them to not push the envelope for disabilities.

So if you don’t know your own kid is ND, how is it that a coach that has 15-20 other kids in the group for an hour a day a few times a week is supposed to pick up on that and adjust his approach to your kid accordingly? 🙄 Not every kid that acts out at a practice is ND and needs to be treated with kid gloves. Sometimes a kid is just a PITA and should be dealt with as such. Coaches are not getting paid near enough to deal with these ridiculous expectations.

We found the abusive coach.

Excellent substantive response. You nailed it, everyone who disagrees with the ridiculous take that a coach should be able to pick up on clues from a kid whose own parent doesn’t know they are ND and adjust accordingly is actually an abusive coach themself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

You don’t always know your kid is ND.

You also don’t need to have a reason to act humanely with people.

The protection for disabilities is there because people are naturally not kind, so we force them to not push the envelope for disabilities.

So if you don’t know your own kid is ND, how is it that a coach that has 15-20 other kids in the group for an hour a day a few times a week is supposed to pick up on that and adjust his approach to your kid accordingly? 🙄 Not every kid that acts out at a practice is ND and needs to be treated with kid gloves. Sometimes a kid is just a PITA and should be dealt with as such. Coaches are not getting paid near enough to deal with these ridiculous expectations.

We found the abusive coach.

Excellent substantive response. You nailed it, everyone who disagrees with the ridiculous take that a coach should be able to pick up on clues from a kid whose own parent doesn’t know they are ND and adjust accordingly is actually an abusive coach themself.

If the coach behaves humanely and respectfully he doesn’t need to a diagnosis.

Do you yell at your boss when he gets on your nerves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

Dp: I don’t know if that’s what she meant. You should really look at it in the light of a different kind of attention and understanding versus special or extra.

If you have a deaf kid, they’re not going to hear your instructions well, but with the right attitude they’ll follow you. A deaf kid with regular attitude will not follow you as well. So you either have to make adjustments to your coaching or to your ego and not take it personally.

In the case of the neurodivergent kid, as a coach, you don’t actually ‘see’ the disability like you would deafness. So, you chalk it up to misbehavior or extra attention.

Maybe if you’re a better human, you’d come in with the desire for a better attitude.

Yes, society is imperfect, but these coaches are not just anyone. They’re in a special position, like teachers. Therefore we should expect better from them.

This is perfectly said.

As a parent, wouldn’t you give the coach a heads up that your swimmer is neurodivergent? With the analogy of the deaf swimmer, you wouldn’t just drop off the kid at the first practice and hope the coach figures out that little Sally can’t hear the instructions. You are the parent, advocate for your child so that the coach can adjust for your child

You don’t always know your kid is ND.

You also don’t need to have a reason to act humanely with people.

The protection for disabilities is there because people are naturally not kind, so we force them to not push the envelope for disabilities.

So if you don’t know your own kid is ND, how is it that a coach that has 15-20 other kids in the group for an hour a day a few times a week is supposed to pick up on that and adjust his approach to your kid accordingly? 🙄 Not every kid that acts out at a practice is ND and needs to be treated with kid gloves. Sometimes a kid is just a PITA and should be dealt with as such. Coaches are not getting paid near enough to deal with these ridiculous expectations.

We found the abusive coach.

Excellent substantive response. You nailed it, everyone who disagrees with the ridiculous take that a coach should be able to pick up on clues from a kid whose own parent doesn’t know they are ND and adjust accordingly is actually an abusive coach themself.

If the coach behaves humanely and respectfully he doesn’t need to a diagnosis.

Do you yell at your boss when he gets on your nerves?

DP but this is a ridiculous comparison. We had an ND kid in our swim team who was grabbing other kids and pulling on their legs/purposely going right after them to grab them and run them over. After being told repeatedly not to do it. And of course the parent never stayed at practice to witness the behavior and would then be upset if the child was asked to sit out. How patient do you expect people to be with that kind of behavior?

[Anonymous]

I sometimes get really annoyed by these three kids that show up to swim. They are my own kids. How do the coaches not get annoyed?