APS Math instruction

[Anonymous]

In 2018-19, my kid took all their math tests with paper and pencil. Teachers would circle errors on tests and return them to students.

Now, every single test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and no feedback on errors. Teachers also don't get to see where students are getting stuck--I wonder how much of these score drops can be linked to iPad assessments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In 2018-19, my kid took all their math tests with paper and pencil. Teachers would circle errors on tests and return them to students.

Now, every single test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and no feedback on errors. Teachers also don't get to see where students are getting stuck--I wonder how much of these score drops can be linked to iPad assessments.

This is a big problem for my 4th grader. He told me he got a 12/16 on a test last week but didn't know what he got wrong. There needs to be an easy way for kids to review what they got wrong so they can learn.

Anecdotally, his MAP RIT score hasn't changed since last year, it's just bouncing around the same level. I guess he's not the only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2018-19, my kid took all their math tests with paper and pencil. Teachers would circle errors on tests and return them to students.

Now, every single test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and no feedback on errors. Teachers also don't get to see where students are getting stuck--I wonder how much of these score drops can be linked to iPad assessments.

This is a big problem for my 4th grader. He told me he got a 12/16 on a test last week but didn't know what he got wrong. There needs to be an easy way for kids to review what they got wrong so they can learn.

Anecdotally, his MAP RIT score hasn't changed since last year, it's just bouncing around the same level. I guess he's not the only one.

This is true of my 6th grader, too. As long as she gets a good enough score, she never tries to figure out what she got wrong. I remember always looking at returned work to understand my mistakes. That feedback loop is super important to learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

My 3rd grader tells me that she is able to complete the entire assignment during the teacher's instruction because it's so easy, and then she is told to do DreamBox or read silently for the rest of math. It's not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

[Anonymous]

I enjoy the attempted spin on the left of this slide noting "an increase in students scoring in the average and high average categories." That increase in gray and green is coming from a decrease in the high category (down 3% in APS total). You'll notice that the APS total in low and low average combined also increased slightly. That tells me that whatever APS is doing isn't helping the low scorers OR the high scorers. Good job, team!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I enjoy the attempted spin on the left of this slide noting "an increase in students scoring in the average and high average categories." That increase in gray and green is coming from a decrease in the high category (down 3% in APS total). You'll notice that the APS total in low and low average combined also increased slightly. That tells me that whatever APS is doing isn't helping the low scorers OR the high scorers. Good job, team!

I saw that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

This is what happens when you don’t group by ability.

Imagine if they held swim classes based solely on age and not ability level. The kids who are ready for butterfly stuck with the kids who are too scared to get in the pool.

They all get to stay in the shallow end. Whoopee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

This is what happens when you don’t group by ability.

Imagine if they held swim classes based solely on age and not ability level. The kids who are ready for butterfly stuck with the kids who are too scared to get in the pool.

They all get to stay in the shallow end. Whoopee.

Or the materials are not rigorous enough for most, and not effective for any. It reminds me of the LC debacle, where the whole workshop curriculum was lacking. Students across all demographics started doing better once APS put in place a quality, evidence-based curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

This is what happens when you don’t group by ability.

Imagine if they held swim classes based solely on age and not ability level. The kids who are ready for butterfly stuck with the kids who are too scared to get in the pool.

They all get to stay in the shallow end. Whoopee.

I don't think ability grouping is going to happen. APS isn't going to do it any more than they already do (see gifted clusters). Choose a battle you can win.

We need to look at viable options to raise scores. I think points to choosing a stronger curriculum and dumping ineffective EduTech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I enjoy the attempted spin on the left of this slide noting "an increase in students scoring in the average and high average categories." That increase in gray and green is coming from a decrease in the high category (down 3% in APS total). You'll notice that the APS total in low and low average combined also increased slightly. That tells me that whatever APS is doing isn't helping the low scorers OR the high scorers. Good job, team!

Absolutely ridiculous. APS administration should be embarrassed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

This is what happens when you don’t group by ability.

Imagine if they held swim classes based solely on age and not ability level. The kids who are ready for butterfly stuck with the kids who are too scared to get in the pool.

They all get to stay in the shallow end. Whoopee.

I don't think ability grouping is going to happen. APS isn't going to do it any more than they already do (see gifted clusters). Choose a battle you can win.

We need to look at viable options to raise scores. I think points to choosing a stronger curriculum and dumping ineffective EduTech.

What really upsets me is the sheer number of admins employed by APS whose entire job is “curriculum”. Which are often purchased brand spanking new with the latest support for being the key to solving our problems, ahem Lucy Caulkins, forced down experienced teachers throats. Teachers in APS never know what they will be teaching the following school year. How is it possible they are really going to adjust like that? Instead they just give up and give the kids iPads/iXL/Dreambox. I do think the math curriculum and teaching suck in APS. I also think it’s a symptom of a greater problem of being beholden to the people at Syphax who justify their existence with… purchasing new curriculum.