APS Math instruction

[Anonymous]

Math has been a disaster this year for my 6th grader. Class is behind the other 6th grade classes for Math 6. Teacher is rushing to catch up and my kid’s grades just keep getting lower and lower.

And you guessed it. We hired a tutor. I met with the teacher twice. We tried to help. It all wasn’t helping and we didn’t know what else to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

7th grade algebra at Gunston is videos and IXL with a teacher who doesn’t respond to emails

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

You actually have a kid at DHMS? Which teacher did your kid have?

My kids have had multiple math teachers 6-8 and were taught in person and expected to take notes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

You actually have a kid at DHMS? Which teacher did your kid have?

My kids have had multiple math teachers 6-8 and were taught in person and expected to take notes.

Yes, I do have a kid at DHMS and there is zero chance I'm posting a teacher's name on here. That's not cool. My kid is in the advanced track with pre-algebra in 6th, so if you're at DHMS that should tell you the teachers.

My kid is doing fine, but I do think APS needs to stop using a workshop model/flipped classroom, plus relying so heavily on IXL to teach. There are better ways for students to learn math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

7th grade algebra at Gunston is videos and IXL with a teacher who doesn’t respond to emails

I've heard the same for Swanson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

This is what happens when you don’t group by ability.

Imagine if they held swim classes based solely on age and not ability level. The kids who are ready for butterfly stuck with the kids who are too scared to get in the pool.

They all get to stay in the shallow end. Whoopee.

I don't think ability grouping is going to happen. APS isn't going to do it any more than they already do (see gifted clusters). Choose a battle you can win.

We need to look at viable options to raise scores. I think points to choosing a stronger curriculum and dumping ineffective EduTech.

Of course grouping isn’t going to happen. But, neither is implementing a more challenging curriculum. It would widen the achievement gap too much. Yes, higher ability kids would thrive, but struggling learners would be left behind and lawd knows APS ain’t gonna allow that.

Better to make everyone suffer.

[Anonymous]

We need a solid math curriculum. I would like "Priimary Math" in the US Edition. It is the actual math curriculum used by students in Singapore - with minimal tweaks (i.e., US weights and measures; US currency denominations)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need a solid math curriculum. I would like "Priimary Math" in the US Edition. It is the actual math curriculum used by students in Singapore - with minimal tweaks (i.e., US weights and measures; US currency denominations)

Isn’t going to happen, but you can purchase yourself (many homeschoolers do).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that APS has CKLA — a literacy curriculum that is solid and works well, APS needs to replace their math curriculum with one that works.

“Primary Math (US Edition)” is almost identical to the “Primary Math” curriculum used by Singapore, which consistently has high math score in the PISA tests. The only differences are (1) that the US Edition teaches US weights/measures rather than Metric-only and (2) the US Edition teaches US coin and printed money denominations rather than Singaporean ones. If they would switch and use that, it would be great.

While it’s a solid curriculum, Singapore (and other high-performing countries) do well because: 1) everyone values education and 2) they group kids by ability.

Our teachers have to spend all their time and energy teaching to the bottom and trying to get kids to behave. No wonder they’re leaving the profession.

APS students were doing better in 2018-19, and even last year. There's no reason scores shouldn't be recovering to at least post-pandemic levels. Instead scores are decreasing. That's not okay.

Yeah and the differences in ability are much greater now than they were pre-pandemic. Some families realized their kids weren’t learning anything and either taught material themselves or hired tutors.

Huge differences in ability + unwillingness to group kids by ability = teacher has to use iPad to babysit so they can work with struggling learners

Don’t be fooled into thinking Dreambox and Lexia are used because they’re solid resources. They’re babysitters.

I know it doesn’t feel good to have your kid in the low reading/math group, but we’ve got to start separating these kids (but in a system where the struggling learners DO get the help they need and have points where they can shift to the medium and higher ability groups as they make progress).

I really don't think it's just grouping. I think it's a gap in content--the materials being taught are not challenging enough and don't include enough practice. I also think there's too much self teaching and exploratory work, versus direct instruction. Students need to be taught.

This is what happens when you don’t group by ability.

Imagine if they held swim classes based solely on age and not ability level. The kids who are ready for butterfly stuck with the kids who are too scared to get in the pool.

They all get to stay in the shallow end. Whoopee.

I don't think ability grouping is going to happen. APS isn't going to do it any more than they already do (see gifted clusters). Choose a battle you can win.

We need to look at viable options to raise scores. I think points to choosing a stronger curriculum and dumping ineffective EduTech.

Of course grouping isn’t going to happen. But, neither is implementing a more challenging curriculum. It would widen the achievement gap too much. Yes, higher ability kids would thrive, but struggling learners would be left behind and lawd knows APS ain’t gonna allow that.

Better to make everyone suffer.

I don't think this is true. A better curriculum will allow all learners to access a more challenging curriculum. We saw this when we switched from LC to CKLA and 95Phonics. All students are doing better. We have to make a change if we want to increase test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I enjoy the attempted spin on the left of this slide noting "an increase in students scoring in the average and high average categories." That increase in gray and green is coming from a decrease in the high category (down 3% in APS total). You'll notice that the APS total in low and low average combined also increased slightly. That tells me that whatever APS is doing isn't helping the low scorers OR the high scorers. Good job, team!

WOW. I don’t even have a kid in your area, I just read this forum to see what’s happening in other places and man…. If I did have my kids in this school district, I would be gathering all of the parents for a protest in the parking lot to demand that the superintendent is fired! And I’m not kidding! Dropping student outcomes across the board is shocking enough, but putting spin on it like that shows that they more determined to cover it up and that nothing will change. That’s terrible!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

You actually have a kid at DHMS? Which teacher did your kid have?

My kids have had multiple math teachers 6-8 and were taught in person and expected to take notes.

I have had two kids at dhms— the teachers teach using a “workshop” model. Instruction is done through guided note work sheets where the teacher is supposed to walk around and correct and answer questions. Only one of my two kids teachers ever did that though. That’s one out of 6 different teachers! They had videos posted on canvas that explain concepts. I think maybe you lucked out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

You actually have a kid at DHMS? Which teacher did your kid have?

My kids have had multiple math teachers 6-8 and were taught in person and expected to take notes.

I have had two kids at dhms— the teachers teach using a “workshop” model. Instruction is done through guided note work sheets where the teacher is supposed to walk around and correct and answer questions. Only one of my two kids teachers ever did that though. That’s one out of 6 different teachers! They had videos posted on canvas that explain concepts. I think maybe you lucked out!

Sorry my post above was really unclear. Only one out of six teachers my kids have had at dhms taught in person. All the other teachers just handed out notes/worksheets and posted videos on canvas and you were expected to ask questions during phoenix time if you didn’t understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

You actually have a kid at DHMS? Which teacher did your kid have?

My kids have had multiple math teachers 6-8 and were taught in person and expected to take notes.

I have had two kids at dhms— the teachers teach using a “workshop” model. Instruction is done through guided note work sheets where the teacher is supposed to walk around and correct and answer questions. Only one of my two kids teachers ever did that though. That’s one out of 6 different teachers! They had videos posted on canvas that explain concepts. I think maybe you lucked out!

Sorry my post above was really unclear. Only one out of six teachers my kids have had at dhms taught in person. All the other teachers just handed out notes/worksheets and posted videos on canvas and you were expected to ask questions during phoenix time if you didn’t understand.

This just doesn't sound believable at all.

We are on our 6th teacher now and none have done that. The teachers walk through the guided notes with the class and then do several example problems together as a class. Then kids have classwork and/or homework.

[Anonymous]

^^ There was one terrible math teacher there a few years ago but she is gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your kid in school? My kids have a lot of direct instruction at Gunston but I agree that APS should be looking at systemic issues. I personally think they need more regular math home work (actual worksheets not just dreambox) starting in 4th grade. I print extra homework out myself that I get from teacherspayteachers.

My older kid also got (good) direct instruction at Gunston. Younger kid gets direct instruction in ES, but it’s whole class, and kid complains that it’s boring once she understands the concept.

At Hamm, students are mostly expected to self teach concepts with online videos.

You actually have a kid at DHMS? Which teacher did your kid have?

My kids have had multiple math teachers 6-8 and were taught in person and expected to take notes.

I have had two kids at dhms— the teachers teach using a “workshop” model. Instruction is done through guided note work sheets where the teacher is supposed to walk around and correct and answer questions. Only one of my two kids teachers ever did that though. That’s one out of 6 different teachers! They had videos posted on canvas that explain concepts. I think maybe you lucked out!

Sorry my post above was really unclear. Only one out of six teachers my kids have had at dhms taught in person. All the other teachers just handed out notes/worksheets and posted videos on canvas and you were expected to ask questions during phoenix time if you didn’t understand.

This just doesn't sound believable at all.

We are on our 6th teacher now and none have done that. The teachers walk through the guided notes with the class and then do several example problems together as a class. Then kids have classwork and/or homework.

So the APS slides linked by OP highlight that teachers should be using a workshop model, and then several posters at both DHMS and other schools report the same issue with kids being expected to self teach and they're not believable? I think you just don't want to believe. My kid has a "good" math teacher and comes home frustrated pretty frequently because a concept wasn't taught at all, which seems to be standard in their math class. There's lots of watching videos to learn.

So what do you attribute to the falling math scores?